To think Brexit has robbed us of so much?

[elzober]

A friend of mine from America recently obtained citizenship of an EU country due to family links. She's now ready to look for a job and open to anything as she doesn't have a degree but worked in the family agricultural business back home. She's fluent in English.

A few years ago I would have been able to invite her to stay with me here in the UK, help her get established and set her up to apply for one of the many jobs over here. But now I can't do any of that.

The ridiculous part is I know local businesses that are really struggling to recruit, can't find people locally and have struggled with the lack of EU workers since Brexit. Particularly in hospitality, agriculture and travel.

Why did we close the door to people who filled these vacancies and contributed to society and paid taxes?

She would have been a decent tax payer, nice member of the community but she's not allowed in.

She's probably going to Ireland now as apparently there's lots more opportunities there since we became an isolated island.

I will never forgive the Conservatives for this shambles. Don't get me started on the fact that a British passport is now worthless and we've lost our right to live in 27 countries. Madness.

I'm a primary school teacher. When I came onto the playground to collect my class the morning after the result one of the parents said to me oh dear someone doesn't look too happy! (To me) I replied with something neutral as I didn't feel it was professional to get into a discussion about the pros and cons of Brexit on the playground! Her response: 'well I just voted leave cos Mark did.. I don't know anything about it!' She seemed quite proud actually 🤷‍♀️

Do i have to lead you by the hand?

the EU does not regulate employment law in member states, other than min standards.

and very similar regs exist in all member states.

"Resident Labour Market Test (RLMT)
The RLMT was designed by the Home Office to ensure that settled workers in the UK have the opportunity to apply for positions before said positions are offered to migrants.

A settled worker is defined as:

A UK National: or

An EEA National currently exercising EU Treaty Rights in the UK (this category is changing as of 1 January 2021, please see below); or

A British Overseas Territories Citizen; or

A Commonwealth Citizen allowed to enter or remain in the UK under any ancestry rules (on the basis that a Grandparent was born in the UK); or

Someone who has Indefinite Leave to Remain"

As i said (and others) there is no way that say a small marine engineering company in Cornwall, employing 3 or 4 people, could advertise in 28 countries, if they could not get a Plasma welder, so they then go and offer the job to Stella, a Welder currently in Malawi, who the owner met a few months ago, whilst delivering a yacht to a client in Durban.

Under your idea of how the EU works, Yvan, a plasma welder in France hears about this breach of EU law and poor old Stella is given her marching orders and sent back to Malawi, £1000s out of pocket in fares and visas.

..and no i don't work in the NHS.

Whatever you say 🙄

I agree… my British passport has expired and I will be replacing it with an Irish one to give me the opportunity to live and work in Europe in the future should I do decide

@Rosewaterblossom

I ve given you the evidence, if your too arrogant to accept it, then thats up to you.

btw i'm quite happy to be proven wrong and will apologise if thats the case.

You ignore @BlueberryMuffin827s post to you outlining facts but for some reason start on me, maybe because you think I can be patronised. 🤷🏼‍♀️

BlueberryMuffin817 rather.

Recent stories of sewage being discharged on beaches reminded of this story - and its pictures - of the positive effect the EU had on UK beaches, something else we've lost
www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/oct/13/the-eus-effect-on-blackpools-beaches-before-and-after-pictures

Get both. Each will have some benefits. Most of mi dual(and more) national mates keep all their passports and other travel documents up to date just in case.

I would just like to point out that Resident Labour Market Test mentioned above covere UK residents (wherever they may have been from) not whole of EU. That would be disproportionate measure and while some EU regulations may appear ridiculous proportionality is important.

So, your assertion that "people on the Brexit side of it said it would not ever involve leaving the single market" is demonstrably not true.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubryukk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce/

Many did publicly proclaim that "only a madman would leave the single market", "nobody is suggesting leaving the single market" etc. The videos of such lies are all over the internet, as I'm sure you know. The fact that some of them said the opposite doesn't change the fact that many, many of them did lie about this publicly on national television and in newspapers and it is YOUR claim that is demonstrably not true.

Go put your tinfoil hat back on and sit with Clavinova if you can't have a rational discussion based on facts.

Everything you have said it spot on, sadly.

OK great 👍 If there's no such rule or regulation then I presume existing EU countries don't have to prioritise workers within the EU first over non EU citizens. That's great so the UK and other countries can apply for jobs in an EU country and not worry EU citizens are prioritised first

You really have no clue about how any of this works, do you?

On this thread, I suppose as long as you sound like you know what you're talking about people believe it as fact.

No, there is robust challenge of nonsense posted, hence so many people calling you out on your nonsense.

Perhaps it's rather that people who are well informed about things tend to "sound like they know what they're talking about", and when other then go and check out what they are saying they find it to be factually correct, so they believe it because it is true.

Whereas when people spout ignorant bullshit people can usually tell at first glance that it is bullshit driven by prejudice as it often conflicts with proven facts they know already, or is internally logically incoherent and therefore not possible to be true, or just prejudiced nonsense repeated directly from what they have read in the Daily Mail or Daily Express which somehow - like an alien who has never set foot on Earth - they comically regard as "news sources".

You do know that the EU isn't a country? Each EU country also has its own labour laws. Where I live there are quotas for sectors where they are desperate for staff e.g. care, agriculture so they are open to non-EU employees. It annoys me that so many people still seem to think that Brexit is about "taking back control" because we couldn't decide anything for ourselves. Just not true.

Yep. Just like when idiots moan about how EU citizens used the NHS when we always had the right to claim back all costs to the NHS from their home countries. And the UK Government decided not to bother to do so!

People are so ignorant it makes me want to cry.

I agree entirely.

I have tried so hard to be patient with people and speak factually but it gets to a point where you do have to question how people that stupid actually function as adults in society. I suppose many of them don't, not in a healthy way.

Whatever you say 🙄

This sums it up perfectly. @Alexandra2001 posts the facts for @Rosewaterblossom who clearly has zero grasp of them and keeps posting absurd and embarrassingly ignorant comments.

And then that is @Rosewaterblossom's response. Classic Brexshiter. Ignorance and total unwillingless to face reality.

Are there no visas she can apply for?

I could have nuanced, statistic-driven, data-analysed conversations about Brexit 'til the sun sets on the sunny uplands.

But in a nutshell:

Brexit is a jagged, deep, pointless, disastrous self-inflicted wound.

Brexit is already undermining safety standards across the board - from safety at work to food standards, from rivers to drinking water.

Anyone defending Brexit is a fucking moron.

Politically, it's the sick, propped-up, gasping-for-life elephant in the room. Utter madness.

Brexit will never not make me fucking angry.

This thread is ridiculous. So many people just hate Brexit and aren't prepared to listen to reason. There's a reason why Brexit won the vote in the first place, because people were suffering and not being listened to and there was a once in a lifetime opportunity to make their feelings known.

So many people just hate Brexit and aren't prepared to listen to reason

What reason? What's great about it? What is there to love that I'm missing?

people were suffering and not being listened to and there was a once in a lifetime opportunity to make their feelings known

Those people are going to suffer a LOT more now. That's exactly what makes me so fucking angry.

No one can ever depend on work and travel outside their nation-state. There was a time when citizens of Commonwealth states could live and work in the UK without much fuss, now they can't.

But movement of labour is always something that is going to be divisive, because it is always going to be more advantageous for the middle classes than the working classes or poor, in a place like the UK. It's always going to tend to suck skilled workers too out of places that are struggling. For the middle classes it means your kids going to university in another country, and professional employment opportunities. Whereas for the working classes it means more competition for certain kinds of skilled labour or even unskilled labour, people who can work cheaper and develop their skills under the auspices of another state.

So not everyone is going to feel that loss in the same way.

I still don't understand why british working class couldn't utilise the free movement like others did. I really think some aspect of "going to work in warehouse/hospitality/manufacture/trade abroad (or here for many snyway)is below us" was in play. Or was it the lack if other languages?

How is it working out for them?

@Florenz if they thought they were suffering before... ever heard of out of the frying pan into the fire?
Please tell me how Brexit has benefited you. Just one way. Anything...