To think Brexit has robbed us of so much?

[elzober]

A friend of mine from America recently obtained citizenship of an EU country due to family links. She's now ready to look for a job and open to anything as she doesn't have a degree but worked in the family agricultural business back home. She's fluent in English.

A few years ago I would have been able to invite her to stay with me here in the UK, help her get established and set her up to apply for one of the many jobs over here. But now I can't do any of that.

The ridiculous part is I know local businesses that are really struggling to recruit, can't find people locally and have struggled with the lack of EU workers since Brexit. Particularly in hospitality, agriculture and travel.

Why did we close the door to people who filled these vacancies and contributed to society and paid taxes?

She would have been a decent tax payer, nice member of the community but she's not allowed in.

She's probably going to Ireland now as apparently there's lots more opportunities there since we became an isolated island.

I will never forgive the Conservatives for this shambles. Don't get me started on the fact that a British passport is now worthless and we've lost our right to live in 27 countries. Madness.

That's really positive and great that the UK can now open up the doors to the world rather just EU workers.

@Rosewaterblossom

That's really positive and great that the UK can now open up the doors to the world rather just EU workers.

If you misunderstand.

There was never a rule that said that employers in the UK could only avail themselves of workers from the EU....

It's just that it was easier for employers to use workers from the UK/EU than elsewhere.

^^...I think you misunderstand.

Guess who will pay for all that extra money employers will be spending on visa sponsoring/schemes/licences

I will never forgive the Conservatives or their supporters for this. People like Jacob Rees Mogg make millions from their hedge funds and leading Brexiteers like Michael Gove get to end their careers and quietly slink off to make millions on the speaking circuit.

Our PM is on constant holiday. Meanwhile millions of people can’t afford to leave the U.K. on holiday as the value of the Pound has hit the floor but dare not go in the U.K. seas as due to cutting ‘red tape’ British water is full of sewage again.

The longer the cost of living crisis and high inflation goes on the clearer it is to see that whilst prices are going up everywhere, the U.K. is a significant outlier in regards to suffering amongst rich western countries and there is only one reason. Many Conservative supporters will have you believe that ‘everywhere’ is as bad as the U.K. is now but they forget many of us have friends and families in other countries and travel so can see the difference.

The U.K. is falling apart and we are about to get the most far right, spiteful and thick PM (Truss) we have ever had. To those who think it can’t get any worse, I have relatives in developing countries, it can get a fuck ton worse.

Excellent post.

We have British passports and DH and the DC also have EU ones.
If we travel in The EU they use the EU ones, much easier

It’s this sort of cluelessness that explains why we left The EU

I know that and I don't misunderstand, but they had to prioritise EU workers applying first. It's on this thread somewhere explaining the UK have shot themselves in the foot re employment in the EU because those countries have to prioritise EU citizens applying first over those outside of it. So the same rule would have applied for the UK when we were in the EU. It is nice now we can open up to the world without having to prioritise EU workers first, hence the positive American lady story.

@Rosewaterblossom

*I know that and I don't misunderstand, but they had to prioritise EU workers applying first@...

Ok fair enough..

For info pre-retirement when I was working in the UK I worked alongside a few US nationals and also non-EU nationals, as well as a cohort of EU citizens.....various mechanisms were in place that allowed the non EU nationals access to the UK labour market (e.g. Visa, inherited rights etc).

I can find no such rule or regulation.

In my company we have employed workers from all over the world, with no priority given to any specific group.

As the NHS has long (actively) recruited from all over the world, this "belief" of yours doesn't hold water.

Obviously an employer can only recruit from the pool that apply.

What we ve now done is ensure we wont be recruiting from the EU, which is a bit stupid and will add to our population, as workers from the other side of the world, wont be returning home when their visa expires.

@Rosewaterblossom unfortunately though the downside is us Brits now can't easily access living and working in the EU or be a priority- whilst still having very very specific criteria for non EU destinations that Brits would actually tend to pick- US, Canada, Australia etc - so Brits have got the worst of all worlds.

@Rosewaterblossom there is no such rule by the way in the EU , you could recruit from anywhere but non EU candidates always had extra hoops to jump through

I can't see too many people rushing to the UK from outside the EU after Windrush anyway. It's not like people can't read or are stupid. They know Windrush wasn't a mistake even if a lot of people in the UK were fooled.

Also I suspect any recruiting will be "subtly" biased against women of child bearing age.

Still, if Brexiteers want to act like it's some sort of divine plan that can't be changed, it's their prerogative. I have some bridges to sell.

OK great 👍 If there's no such rule or regulation then I presume existing EU countries don't have to prioritise workers within the EU first over non EU citizens. That's great so the UK and other countries can apply for jobs in an EU country and not worry EU citizens are prioritised first 🙂

We have another type of Windrush like scandal in making with EUSS... No proof at hand. All held online with HO. "It's fine, you don't need any paper. We got it"...

So this post from earlier in the thread is nonsense then?

@Bubblebubblebah The cost of the sponsor license is paid by the employer. The cost is £1476 for large businesses and £536 for small businesses/charities. The license lasts for four years during which time the company is able to sponsor foreign workers. On top of that the company has to pay an immigration skills charge to the government (£500 per employee for every six months for large employers).

Sometimes the employer will offer to pay the visa fees but often the applicant pays themselves. The current cost to the employee is £625-719 (depending on if you're outside/inside the UK) for a three year visa. You pay this fee again if you change jobs. If you lose your job you need to leave the UK or obtain another sponsorship within a set period of time (usually 60 days). Additionally, the applicant pays an Immigration Health Surchage of £624/year, payable upfront in a lump sum. You are not entitled to any benefits. Most other visas categories (dependents, spouses also pay the IHS and are also not able to access benefits).

@Alexandra2001 This was called the Resident Labour Market Test under the old Tier 2 visa scheme. Non-EU applicants could apply for jobs but if someone from within the EU applied and met the minimum requirements they had to be offered the role first. Medical professions tend to be on the shortage occupation list (which was not subject to the RLMT) so if you work for the NHS that would be why you didn't come across it. There is now a special Health and Care Visa for anyone coming to work for the NHS but am not as familiar with that.

Not trying to start an argument with anyone. But I always see a lot of incorrect information about the visa process from both sides so, as someone who has been through it thought it might be helpful to shed some light.

@BlueberryMuffin817 i know it's oaid by emplyer. Companies will pass it on in costs of products

Thank you, I had a feeling it was along those lines.

On this thread, I suppose as long as you sound like you know what you're talking about people believe it as fact.

You do know that the EU isn't a country? Each EU country also has its own labour laws. Where I live there are quotas for sectors where they are desperate for staff e.g. care, agriculture so they are open to non-EU employees. It annoys me that so many people still seem to think that Brexit is about "taking back control" because we couldn't decide anything for ourselves. Just not true.

Brexit is an unqualified disaster from top to bottom. On the international stage people are either looking at us with pity if they’re generous or glee if they’re interested in taking advantage of our weakened state. On a day to day basis we are all poorer, except for the Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg who actively placed short bets on the pound tanking.

But the worst thing is that it has shown up a sizeable portion of the population, a smirking, leering, gloating cadre of people who are either unwilling or unable to face reality, and who have sold out the next generation just so they can (erroneously) claim they got their sovereignty back.

Generational shift means that the vast majority of voters will be pro-EU sooner rather than later, but FFS it’s boring watching idiot brexiteers gurn with delight as the country collapses around them.

I was talking to a couple of French vets and the asked in baffled tones who voted for Brexit. They felt sorry for us and thought it was a shame but asked had I seen any benefits. I couldn’t think of one. They asked about our inflation and our gas and electric costs and stared open mouthed at the £10000 annual fixed price quote I was offered. Their paper work and worming treatment was 25 euros and they were stunned to hear for the rabies vaccine and AHC I paid £290. It was the first EHC she had completed but she said she thought there was fewer Brit’s with pets visiting and now she realised that the cost was stopping travel.

I don’t like the way it has made easy familiarity with our neighbours more difficult and particularly for the youngsters with no Erasmus programmes, fewer job opportunities and I can’t see any gains, certainly not the ones expected by the people I knew who voted leave.

@Rosewaterblossom it's not actually quite like that- technically a lot of companies in countries can employ who they want but the issue is more to do with residency rules than employment- any British citizen wanting to work and live within EU will have to meet residency laws if they want to stay more than 90 days AND work. They can't work without the permit-so whilst companies can technically sponsor non EU candidates this can take a good while - and a lot of faff whereas an EU citizen candidate can rock up for an interview and start work next week. So it isn't that British candidates 'can't' apply - the chances are unless there is a shortage or it's an exceptional special knowledge/contacts/skills candidate most company's in the EU can't be bothered with the faff, beauracracy or wait !! That's why most people working there now are either company transfers/locations (lots of British UN workers when we were living in Copenhagen). People who have relocated their whole company or in certain country's taking advantage of digital nomad visas( which are quite short term) and of course people who were resident by end of 2020 .

I feel very sad about it. I remember being in the fence when the referendum was being discussed so thought I’d better do some reading around-what Brexiters we’re saying sounded quite plausible. But after doing a bit of reading, I realised that we’d be fucking insane to contemplate leaving the EU-we had a great deal. The things we didn’t want (euro and Schengen) but all the other benefits. I feel really sad for my kids. What annoys me is that anyone with half a brain could’ve found out what I did. So I can only conclude it was a load of angry old people who didn’t really care.