TO BE SO ANGRY WITH CRUEL DB

[Soddingcat]

So this is long…

DB is now 54, has always been challenging from a young child. He has lived with my parents for years who are now both in their 80s and dad is bedridden so its just really my mum who deals with him

We are certain he has ASD, although undiagnosed . My 3 daughters all have ASD so i understand the problems facing challenging behaviour .

The way he treats my parents is outrageous, he doesn't pay any board and refuses to help with bills and eats their food ,he does not do any cleaning and will do the occasional small job after being asked many times. He is an absolute leech.
When he was younger he stole money, lied and often took our belongings and swapped them at school , he bullied us and was dreadful all round.

He gave up alcohol 5 years ago and claims he is a new man, and now claims he was an alcoholic which made him awful .
He is always posting pics on FB of himself with motivational statements which say things like
“ BE THE BEST VERSION OF YOURSELF” “ BEAT YOUR DEMONS AND HAVE THE BEST LIFE” and folk tell him how inspiring he is …

Now he has got job finally in Wales and has moved there, he locked his bedroom door to prevent entry . Mum could do with the extra room but he says she cant have it. He says he may come up and clear it sometime…

Mums telly broke this week and she asked him if she could borrow his and he said no.
Mum is very soft and lets him get away with murder because he shouts when challenged so for an easy life she just lets him be.

I feel so pissed off about this and this latest TV drama has just given me the rage
He has no empathy whatsoever, but because mum refuses to challenge him , explain that his behaviour is hurtful and that as he gets lots given to him for free then it would be kind to share his TV, which is is not using anyway.

The TV was given to him by mums brother and is second hand, its not like a big fancy telly . He claims it is sentimental.
The rest of us clubbed together and bought her a new one and i took it round.
I sent him a message politely asking if he would like to contribute and asking if he would like to explain his reluctance to let her use his TV

He did not respond, but has blocked me on FB and messenger now so i cant contact him

I feel cross with mum that she is unable to stand up to him , she just shrugs it off.
I feel that this is going to just get worse, I cant understand why she wont say anything , although im sure he wont change , he needs to be told his behaviour is not on
I feel that she enables this behaviour and im so upset about it.
I usually try and just accept it as she is an adult , but an increasingly incredulous

Do i just let them get on with it? I really want to stop feeling bitter and angry about it, but when i see my lovely mum treated like this it makes me very sad

Ive read terrible stories on here about older adult men living with parents till they die.
I don't want this to be their last few years

Break into his room, sell anything worth having to make up for his beastly behaviour when you were young. Then skip the rest. Get your parents to change the locks.

Your brother sounds awful and he's clearly causing a lot of stress for you all.

However, it's your mum's house, not yours. You can't go around changing locks, throwing things out, etc in a house that isn't yours. If your brother comes back and finds his things disturbed, he's likely to take it out on your parents and cause a whole lot more stress. Unless your mum wants you to intervene, you need to just leave it.

Would your mum move as one previous poster said? Would be a brilliant idea and free her to enjoy a life away from where he might move back in. Less stress!

Do i just let them get on with it?

You have no choice really, at least while they have capacity, but while it's only natural to feel bad for your mum I'm afraid I wouldn't be listening to any complaining

Yes she's in her 80s now and it's all a great shame, but she wasn't always that age and sadly they've enabled this situation over decades.
Personally I'd help with whatever's reasonable, but would otherwise be taking a step back

I understand your feelings OP but I don't think there's anything you can do sadly because it is your parents decision. If you could get your mum to admit to wanting help it would be different because then you'd be acting in her behalf.

I have POA so would not have a problem turfing him out

POA doesn't give you that right. Although it would give you the right to speak to officials on your mum's behalf if she wanted him kicked out.

POA only comes into play when your mum loses the capacity to make her own decisions, it doesn't allow you to over-rule her when she had capacity.

As this poster says above. You can make decisions for your mum only when she loses the ability to make decisions for herself. POA ends upon your mum's death (assuming it's her you have the POA for) so it doesn't mean you have any power to kick him out after she's died.

There is a will so wont be any arguments over that

Don't bank on it. It's good there's a will. But people do sometimes contest them. Even if they don't win it can cause delays and expenses for the other people who would inherit.

Who is executor? If it's him and he doesn't comply with the terms of the will (eg if he tried to keep it all for himself or live in the house preventing a sale etc), you'd have to challenge him legally. I'm not sure if that means reporting to the police or taking him to court privately or both.

He would not be able to live there on his own as its a big house and he could not pay any bills.

That doesn't mean he wouldn't squat there and just not pay any bills. Also doesn't mean he wouldn't move a girlfriend in and get her to pay the bills or rent some rooms out to get money that way.

It's not his house, he's not a lodger, he can't just lock it and declare it never be opened

He can and he has! Whether it's legal or not I don't know. OP's mum could easily deal with the situation while she's alive but after her death it could become more tricky.

Lodgers don't have locks on the door to their room precisely because the presence of a lock infers they have more rights, in line with a regular tenancy and the lock would give them grounds to argue that's the case. Especially when OP's parents are apparently respecting his "right" to a lock and treating the room as his and have been doing this for some time. It's maybe worse that there's no official tenancy or lodger agreement and therefore no defined end date to the occupation.

If the parents got rid of the lock, cleared the room and perhaps pretended there never was a lock, as the parents are owners of the house I doubt OP's brother could do anything about it and it would come down to his word against theirs.

But after they're dead? Who knows. Maybe he could claim it's been his home all along and he has a right to stay, however impractical that may be with affording bills etc. Non payment of utilities and council tax would be a separate issue to his rights to remain living there.

If she doesn't like it, she needs to change it.

Go r

You can't change your brother.
You can either ignore this.
Or you can offer practical help but acknowledge your mother might not accept it.

So I would say to her I know you are struggling to afford the upkeep of your large house and that is going to get worse with large bills. I know moving is difficult. But if you do want to move I can:

• Find a couple of places for you to look at and I will take you to visit


• Arrange the purchase/rent of the new place and sale of existing one


• Pack up your belongings or arrange for a removal company to do so


• Get a company to move your belongings


• Unpack and arrange everything in your new house - you can stay with me or a relative while this is all done.

If you can't offer that, and I know it is a lot, I think you just need to accept you can't change this. At her age she is not going to be able to move unless you do everything for her. But it would be the best thing in terms of your brother and in terms of upkeep and money.

That is pretty unsympathetic. She is an elderly woman in her eighties caring for a housebound husband. Anyone in that situation would already be struggling.

I'd go round with a screwdriver, take the bloody door off the hinges, box up his shit, take it home with me and tell him he has 14 days to claim it before I take it to the charity shop.

Fuck that for a lark.

Unless your mum wants you to intervene, you need to just leave it

TBH I wouldn't even be sure about a request from them to intervene; it's only too easy to ask this, then when the sh1t hits the fan for them to back off leaving OP to carry the can

If any changes are to be made they really need to come from the DPs, and while OP could certainly support them I wouldn't be taking the initiative personally

This really annoys me. My bf has a relative like this. The price of living rent free at home surely is that you look after your elderly parents. But they do not.

We have tried having serious talks and about his relative moving out now so it's not too late but my bf's elderly relatives just do not get it. We have even tried asking them to move into more suitable housing but it always comes back to the relative moving with them.

I would give it one more try and try and couch it in terms that your DB needs to move out permanently because unfortunately, once your DPs have passed away he will have to deal with it on his own.

If he is still there once your DPs have passed away you will never get him out. If you sell the home you will need him to sign documentation to state that he is leaving and he probably will not.

Agree with all who say box his stuff up and put in storage - and definitely change the locks, that was the only way we got my abusive brother out of my parents house, your mother has to agree though, took ages for my dad to accept that he did not have to have an abuser living in his home.

Treat clearing the room as a gift to your mum, as the TV was, rather than a barging in. Go up to her house for a weekend, lock off the door, stuff boxed up and into – the loft? Storage unit? Anywhere but a usable room – make the bed nicely with some new sheets, vase of flowers, dust and Hoover, wash the windows and the curtains, then cook your parents a nice dinner.

Show your mum what her spare room could and should be like, and behave as though you’re giving her a treat – which you are. It doesn’t have to be all guns blazing: it can be, “Let’s air out the spare room this weekend, shall we? I’ll
make space in the loft/cellar/bin for DB’s junk, don’t worry, you don’t have to lift a finger. I brought biscuits.”

If he's moved out then it's really no longer his room.
Parents don't keep children's rooms for the children when they've moved out. They turn them into guest rooms, hobby rooms , walk in bedrooms etc...

You've definitely got an enormous problem here as you clearly have your parents' interests at heart but there really isn't much that you can do until they lack capacity.

All the best OP.

Why do you begin with saying he has ASD? Is an ASD person more likely to be cruel?

Admittedly of my ASD kids could easily end up like this but myself and younger son are very conscientious, kind, tidy and clean. Fair enough to mention it but don’t begin by making a huge assumption that ASD people are all socially incompetent and cruel.

Oh gosh we have a similar situation with my DB (40) although thank god he doesn’t live with my parents (he has a council flat)

He has always had issues, altho never formally diagnosed but definitely along the likes of schizophrenia or autism.

he acts like a complete stroppy teenager around my parents, who also totally enable this behaviour! They take round hot meals to his house several times a week or he comes to their house. He often looks in disgust at what he’s being served eg once she was doing burgers on the bbq so invited him round. She didn’t have buns for the burgers and apparently this completely ruined his day! He told me ‘what on earth was mum thinking not doing buns for the burgers?! All day long I’ve been excited to come round for dinner and now it’s been ruined cos she didn’t have buns in the house!’ I was gobsmacked. if he’s not impressed with the meal he’s been served up, he will not talk and look like he’s sulking and then get up afterwards to go home without saying a word, not a goodbye or thank you, as if he’s been completely insulted

he works in and admin job and is single and probably has more money than all of us cos he doesn’t spend a single penny! He won’t buy himself clothes or shoes, thinks going to the pub etc is a total waste of money. Yet he never buys my mum a bunch of flowers or anything for all she does for him.

my 72 yr old mum goes round his flat once a month to deep clean it cos he ‘can’t’ do it. She always says how sorry for him she is cos all he ever has in the food cupboard is a bottle of ketchup. Yet she doesn’t see that this is purely cos he’s tight as hell and buys what he wants for dinner every day, rather than doing a weekly shop

he gets stroppy if my parents go on holiday cos it means he doesn’t get his dinners or all the extra help they give him. If my dad rings him from holiday my bro will often guilt trip by saying ‘well I’m glad YOURE having a good time’

you can barely say anything to him without him being offended. My mum is always terrified he’s going to end it all, so she tip toes around him and they always excuse his behaviours as ‘it’s part of his condition’ (no condition has ever been confirmed)

he has loads of good friends and, to me, that shows that he fully capable of behaving absolutely ‘normally’ around people and I’m convinced how he behaves to my parents is all for show and deliberate, otherwise how would retain such good friendships over the years?

to me this is all my parents enabling him though. I and my older brother have said categorically to my parents that we will not take on that responsibility of him when they pass. We will look out for him but no way are we going to be cooking and cleaning or accepting that put on behaviour. I actually can’t even stand to be around him in his company; he makes me skin crawl and I get angrier and angrier at how pathetic and incapable he is (he’s not incapable at all but would rather my parents do things for him)

I hear your frustration and anger x

Have the locked picked, or break in with excuses such as flood, which would get the room cleared, fleas, bedbugs, anything really that means entry is essential, along with clearing at least some items. Also agree with changing locks, ring doorbell perhaps for security and check that he is not still registered at the address. Is post still going there and, if so, return it to sender.

Seriously folks can we stop with the 'I know a selfish bastard and I've diagnosed them as possibly being autistic without having any professional qualifications whatsoever' bullshit. It's really very wearing if you actually are autistic. You'd be not happy if we started doing posts saying 'I know a total asshole - rude, bigoted, selfish, self-centred etc. Neurotypical - you might have guessed!'
(Actually I do know someone like that, and he is NT, fancy that)

Very sensible points by @DitzyBluebells

1. Change the front and back door locks.
2. Hire a storage unit.
3. Break the door down to his bedroom, bag/box everything and move it to the unit.
4. Pay upfront for 3 months and send him details of where his stuff is/how to access it then leave him to it.

They would benefit so much by moving to somewhere more accessible/suitable (smaller and less trouble for your mum).

Also have a family member who basically spent whole life living with parents. Potentially has undiagnosed MH issues, I’d be guessing that on behaviour only though.

I know it’s frustrating but if they want to live that way it’s not your life and it is what it is. In the very end his mother enjoyed the feeling of company and knowing her son was there safe, that was always a priority for her. She got so much peace and comfort from that. Even though as an outsider it seems like a wasted life it was enough for them.

His parents passed away 15 years ago and he still lives in their house , he’s now in his 70s but now seems to manage expenses etc okay, even on a pension. So even though you may worry he’ll have no life skills that may not be the case.

YABU unreasonable and ableist with your “we’re almost certain he has ASD” remark.

Literally nothing you have described suggests he is autistic. Everything suggests he is a selfish, weapons-grade toxic arsehole.

Maybe educate yourself on the difference?

I've been here. You're not being unreasonable but you'll only make your mum more unhappy if you try to force her to change things and cause arguments. If she has enabled him it sounds like she's prepared to live with the consequences. You could make a few remarks to him about treating your parents better though.

Of course YANBU but I can't see things changing now.