They’re not ‘top-up’ benefits if you don’t work full-time

[Gobbledegobble]

If people do work full-time, absolutely those wages should be enough to live a decent life and not require outside support, and that requires systemic change (and higher taxation for corporations, closure of tax evasion loopholes and legislation to outlaw poverty wages). I’m a lifelong labour voter and will never vote Tory. BUT working 15, 20 hours a week and bemoaning that you ‘just’ need ‘top-up’ benefits is disingenuous. I couldn’t survive on part-time wages so I work full-time. I ‘top up’ my wages, if you will! But my own efforts. Outside of you or your children having a disability / chronic health need requiring ongoing care, if you can’t afford to live on part-time hours then you can’t afford to work part-time. My partner and I work full time and pay over £1k a month in childcare fees to enable us to do so. Having children does not mean you can’t work until they’re at school and then only school hours, as lots of people seem to think. The cost of childcare is outrageous and again needs systemic change through higher taxation on huge wealth. But it’s not a ‘top-up’ benefit (as if that’s somehow better or more moral than just plain old benefits). Sure I’ll get piled on but I fully support the welfare state and want benefits to be much more generous for when people need them, which should largely be a short-term crisis. Not until the children you chose to have are secondary school age with you being ‘topped up’ by full-time workers’ taxes until then.

That’s not what I meant when I said that. They will have degrees but also multiple qualifications like SANS and others which are roughly 10k each.

At the very, very top level, yes. But you need to get into the field first. You wouldn't be expected to have those levels of certifications at entry-level. Cisco is what all the entry-level positions ask for.

FWIW, I also already have a degree. I think there is an assumption that those on the lower end of the socio-economic scale are uneducated. That is rarely ever the case.

I've studied continuously since leaving school. So have many of my friends. Carers are also expected to have or work towards various level 3 and 4 certifications.

We don’t pay competitive wages at any level. It’s shocking that shelf stackers earn more than carers.

Which is what I said. Your experience in this field is not comparable to someone working at the top level. It’s a lot of money (not compared to abroad) for a lot of stress. It’s not wise to go into a new career shouting how easy it is when at the top it’s very pressurised. A CCNA entry post is not what I was discussing when I was discussing wage suppression linked across the board.

All the people everyone clapped for get paid shit wages and nothing has changed.

People will clap for them, but they'll rage if those same people get a few quid towards feeding themselves.

Which is what I said. Your experience in this field is not comparable to someone working at the top level

I wasn't commenting on the very top end of the field. I was commenting on the fact at entry level eg the level where there is no responsibility, no pressure, and no chance of being prosecuted, you are still earning roughly six times what a carer earns when a carer is literally in charge of keeping alive.

Sure you can go higher and higher and the earning potential is unlimited. And yeah, being in charge of the entirety of, say Amazon's cyber security, would be stressful and could land you in hot water if you get it wrong but I'd still argue that it is not as stressful as dealing with two sets of paramedics while also trying to get 12 people with varying mobility and cognitive issues medicated, washed, dressed and into bed while working one staff member short and having to do it within the space of two hours.

Does anyone think universal basic income has any real chance of being legislated in?

Well here is the crux of it. The Govt going right back to Labour have driven salaries down across the board by subsidising wages. If they stopped paying out and made everyone’s salary go up accordingly. That’s defence, education, health and the civil service they have to pay properly and they don’t want to. Talking of recruitment crisis…look in the public sector that’s even worse.

To increase salaries in the public sector either taxes would have to rise or services would have to be cut even more than they have already - if that’s possible.

Also, I doubt that the CEO would spend most of their time at work being hit, kicked, abused, spat on, threatened etc, every day. But those who do (whether they are P/T or F/T), are vilified for daring to want to have enough money to live on and are claiming UC in order to do so.

So why did you retrain then? People can chose career paths. You can’t compare because you aren’t there yet. If it was all so easy why is there a massive shortage of highly qualified and experienced people in this field? Being offered multiples of their “high” salary to go abroad?

Be careful bad mouthing your career on the way up. It’s not a good look and does nothing to promote women in STEM.

The father of my children passed away recently. My 15-year-old was alone with him at the time. When I arrived she was sitting in the arms of a young paramedic. The poor girl must only have been 24/25. She had to tell a child that her father had passed away and comfort her until I got there.

That's a hard and stressful job. That girl gets paid £25k p/a after studying for three years.

I imagine you’re banging your head on the wall at this point @Frequency.

Honestly I think whenever beenfot bashing threads like this pop up, anyone that knows anything of the actual realities should probably steer clear. Bashing head against a wall of ignorance, bias and stupidity hurts after a while.🤪

So why did you retrain then?

Because I don't like relying on tax credits and UC frightened me even more. I wanted to make the jump before I got kicked off tax credits. I've been stung one too many times by HMRC to trust them to get the move from tax credits to UC right.

I've dipped in and out of IT and networking since leaving school 20-plus years ago so knew I had the experience and capability I just needed the certifications.

I'm not badmouthing the career at all. I am pointing out that more money = more stress is not universally true. Generally, it is the lowest paid vocations that have the highest stress and highest risk if it goes tits up.

When was the last time a cyber security analyst was charged with manslaughter?

How do you know the circumstances of people on this thread. Oh you don’t. People pointing out that this country subsidises far too much causing low wages - which is why we are now fucked is not benefit bashing. Ignorant, right wing benefit hater, benefit basher. The people banging their head against the walls are the ones who are on here all day, quoting posters and getting all repetitive when they reply. That’s your issue.

I don't think I've done too much quoting and repeating myself tbh.
maybe I have though these threads pop up a lot and I often get sucked in. Sometimes I try to point out the misinformation, sometimes I don't.
its often easier to let people believe what they believe, like flat earthers, you can show them the globe, but they'll still believe what they read on Facebook..

I was a single mum, worked part time and got top up benefits as you call them. No one other than me to care for the children so no, I don't feel guilty for taking them.

I just find it disgusting that these threads - and opinions in general around this topic - almost always focus on the single mum and demonise her for claiming top up benefits and working PT, but fail to mention the feckless fathers who aren't supporting their children adequately... thus forcing the mum into this position!

@Prolly and that's a massive societal problem. Every child has two parents (unless one has sadly died.) Parents might separate or divorce but you don't divorce your children. It's an absolute scandal that absent parents aren't made accountable more readily. You can't force parents to stay together if they don't want to but you can damn well make them financially responsible

Yep. Because let's be honest, a lot of people think single mum = poor decision-maker who should have kept her legs closed. It all comes back to sex.

But it's "ok" if she's a single mum because she is a widow. Very bloody generous.

There was no such thing as track and trace. It was Test and Trace, and most of the money budgeted was for all of the millions of tests being done every week. The 37 billion was an anticipated budget, and the cost so far hasn’t been anywhere close to that.

Exactly this.

@Capri3 my mistake Test and trace. They were originally allocated £22bn then had a further £15bn funding given to the project with the 'promise' of no further lockdowns which was broken twice and didn't test or trace potential cases properly.

committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/150988/unimaginable-cost-of-test-trace-failed-to-deliver-central-promise-of-averting-another-lockdown/

There was a large proportion of budget allocated to the millions of tests, but as this article details, the labs were not operating at capacity and only 50% of swabs taken were turned around with results at 24 hours- the target. This would suggest that the contractor was not meeting the demands of the service and did nothing to prevent the spread of covid which was the aim.

People will clap for them, but they'll rage if those same people get a few quid towards feeding themselves.

Who does, apart from ardent Tories? I am all for raising the NMW to some nationally agreed living wage, and cutting out tax credits (which are a subsidy to big businesses). The truth is the Tories don’t care about anyone (except their own Eton educated, wealthy elite and big businesses), whether the rest of the population are suffering due to lack of resources in the NHS, social care, education, the welfare system, you name it; or rising food, energy and housing prices.