They’re not ‘top-up’ benefits if you don’t work full-time

[Gobbledegobble]

If people do work full-time, absolutely those wages should be enough to live a decent life and not require outside support, and that requires systemic change (and higher taxation for corporations, closure of tax evasion loopholes and legislation to outlaw poverty wages). I’m a lifelong labour voter and will never vote Tory. BUT working 15, 20 hours a week and bemoaning that you ‘just’ need ‘top-up’ benefits is disingenuous. I couldn’t survive on part-time wages so I work full-time. I ‘top up’ my wages, if you will! But my own efforts. Outside of you or your children having a disability / chronic health need requiring ongoing care, if you can’t afford to live on part-time hours then you can’t afford to work part-time. My partner and I work full time and pay over £1k a month in childcare fees to enable us to do so. Having children does not mean you can’t work until they’re at school and then only school hours, as lots of people seem to think. The cost of childcare is outrageous and again needs systemic change through higher taxation on huge wealth. But it’s not a ‘top-up’ benefit (as if that’s somehow better or more moral than just plain old benefits). Sure I’ll get piled on but I fully support the welfare state and want benefits to be much more generous for when people need them, which should largely be a short-term crisis. Not until the children you chose to have are secondary school age with you being ‘topped up’ by full-time workers’ taxes until then.

More anti benefit claimant threads.

As a poster said on another thread.

"The country is in the toilet and instead of blaming the people pushing the flusher, you're blaming people just trying to swim. Them drowning, won't help you float."

So, we have kids and use our full time wages to pay for them and it leaves us with nothing left over, so it makes sense surely to be a stay at home parent and claim some benefits.

The amount of people who BLAST working parents for working and not looking after their own kids 24/7 is insane.

I work full time and the amount of people who sigh and ask me "don't you miss your child when you work so much?" with a pathetic head tilt and and a judgemental expression is insane. I get judged non-stop for working and having a child. I'd get judged for not working, and I'd get judged for not having kids.

Wtf are people supposed to do?!

Yawn

I'd love more hours! I do 22.5 hours and asked for more a year ago. My organisation is struggling as it is. I work a professional job BTW and have always worked, went back both times after maternity leave. I didn't have children expecting to need government help, my marriage broke down. I'm not moaning I get UC either. I'm very grateful.

It's not just cost of childcare, it's availability. My children are starting after school club in September, they were on the waiting list for 18 months. Breakfast club has an even longer waiting list. Childminders here are in short supply and most of them don't do after school care.

And it's not so easy just to get a second job either when you have children and need flexibility because of the childcare issues mentioned above.

You seem to have a very simplistic idea of single parents tbh, which lets be honest your post is mainly aimed at.

Oooh a benefit bashing thread we haven't had one of those for at least 20 minutes. 🙄

Not seen the other thread.

I would like to live in a world where a mother works full time, by choice. Not where a woman returns to full time employment out of necessity.

I've been a single parent for 13 years and for the most part, have worked full time throughout. However, when my mum was unwell and as an only child any support she needed being down to me, it was essential that I changed my working pattern to be there for her and for a couple of years I did part time hours. Believe me when I say the playground coven had an awful lot to say about it. It was unpleasant and totally unfair because for all that gossip and nastiness about benefits, I had 3 kids, no support from the ex, no sibling support and a parent who died slowly with dementia. Something needed to give in my life.

I have no regrets. I went back full time as soon as I was able. You need to be careful, OP, judging people. You don't know what might be happening in the background of someone's life and what your judgement can do to someone who is already struggling and fragile.

Part of the issue is the change in societies views.
People are having kids later so grand parents are also older and can't help

Don't have kids when you are young and don't have a career. Have them when you are older but then your parents are too old to help. Cant really win this one whatever people try amd do.

Divorce is seen as acceptable regardless of the reason

Good. No one should be miserable in loveless relationships or feel judgement for breaking off relationships that are not happy or healthy. The reasons are no ones business really

People have kids when not married and then the partner leaves mum to look after them

marriage doesn't stop that. Plenty of men who run off also rig it so they don't have to pay as much as they should too. The kids are already here at that point not much anyone can do.

One wage isn't enough to live a normal life

this is the huge issue. No one should be working full time akd unable to live

(People who can't afford kids I.e. stuck in minimum wage jobs still have them*

its not ideal no, but whats the alternative? Forced abortions? No contraception is 100 percent reliable.

People have more than one when they can't really afford it

yes its a poor decision but again not much any one can do when they are here.

Childcare is ridiculously expensive as it's now sold meeting ofsted standards hint I just want someone to babysit in the home environment like they would raise their own kids

not just expensive but impossible to access for many. Space isn't always available and some spaces are probably taken up with the free hours for people technically able to have them home. ( and no i dont begrudge the funding and spaces for 2 /3/4 year olds who should still get the benefit of mixing with other children and preparing for school and shouldn't miss out because parents work hours different to school hours. Especially as many do those jobs precisely so they can pick up akd drop off the kids at nursery/pre school.

Sterilisation isn't easy to access

Yes fir some reason drs don't trust consenting adults to make decisions about their own bodies..making sensible decisions is blocked at every turn. Almost like its a good thing to punish women for having sex even if its protected and with a husband.

Universal Credit was set up by the Tories to prop up big business so they don't have to give people proper full time contracts and rights. So they can employ on 8 hour or zero hour contracts when it suits and UC can demand these employees take on more hours as overtime when businesses need, on threat of sanction of their meagre top ups.

The government actually produced a leaflet for employers detailing how the new UC would enable them to benefit from a 'flexible workforce' (read exploitative practices). I'll see if I can find it..

You are bashing the wrong people, OP.

In theory you're right, but until we completely ban Zero Hours contracts you are being fully unreasonable. Right now too many people do not have the option of getting a full time job because employers want everything on their terms.

Oh that's good.

OP, sometimes part-time work or irregular shifts are all someone is able to find or is all that fits with their other responsibilities - surely it's better someone works part-time and has a top-up than relies entirely on benefits?

Up until the systemic problems you cite yourself are sorted, you're very unreasonable.

I am a single parent with a full time job and very high childcare costs. I have a decent employer and a job I largely enjoy, but I feel bitterly envious sometimes of people who can afford to work PT and spend more time with their children. I do think that would be better for my children, and nicer for me. But I can't afford it so I can't do it. I'm on UC too! I can console myself by acknowledging my increased career potential and pension contributions, as well as obviously recognising I'm incredibly fortunate to have my children and my good job etc. But I also know my children and I are missing out on a nicer day-to-day quality of life.

I don’t really care what benefits people claim. My experience tells me that the vast majority of people want to work and earn money.

Benefits are hardly some junket - it’s a difficult life and I don’t know people’s circumstances and they’re none of my business.

I grew up in poverty in a workless household. Why? Christ knows. Am I claiming benefits? No. DH and I earn fairly well and have a life that works for us. All I care about is making life a bit less shot for everyone.

I’m happy to subsidise the odd grifter because without doing so the really needy will get sod all.

Christ.

Look upward. Your neighbours are not your enemies.

I kind of understand your POV but in this day of zero hour contracts, Yabu to think that people don't need topups. People on zero hours need to be fully flexible (including nights and weekends)and if they turn down a shift (because they might be working at another zero hours job) they risk not getting hours any more. Single parents can't do nights and weekends because of childcare and childcare for 2 is often a similar amount to minimum wage. I fully support UC paying up to 80% of childcare costs but I'm guessing that you don't agree with that?

Take your partner out of the equation OP. How would you do it then? Could you still afford to pay the childcare and work full time as well as the rest of the bills?

If you could then cool beans. If you couldn't, then what?

Don't look down on something you may find yourself in through no fault of your own.

Here it is - with this lovely quote -

Universal Credit
gives employers the
opportunity to use
existing part time
staff for overtime and
extra shifts at peak
times

and

Universal Credit increases the fnancial incentive of work and
provides employers like you with a more fexible workforce.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/690331/how-universal-credit-can-help-your-business.pdf

Also, claimants have to attend appointments to prove they are looking for more hours, and face sanctions if they fail to do what is required. (25 hours once youngest child is 5, and full time if over 13, full time for anyone without children). You can't just stay part time.

Again, you couldn’t do that alone if your DH suddenly left you, or did something dangerous that forced you to take the children and leave him.

I've reported this one.

It's interesting that out of all the demographics of the country, the one that MN allows to be so vehemently and repeatedly attacked is Benefit claimants.

Imagine, just for a second, the OP bashed black people, Asians, trans, etc..

But nope, benefit claimants, which are often poor , disabled or sick, they're fair game it seems.

When DH worked, after the council told him he had to give up his business because he was claiming housing benefit and therefore "couldn't afford to support his family", he had to work part-time and claim working tax credits so that we could afford to live. If he'd worked full-time, we'd either have starved or been evicted. Now that universal credit has been fully rolled out it's better. DH has retired and I'm looking for a full-time job and have been assured that I can still receive universal credit, there's no limit to hours. So I'm on the fence.

I earn a decent wage but if my DP and I split up I'd be left with £300 after paying full time childcare for two each month.

For anyone on minimum wage with more than one child their outgoings childcare-wise would be more than one salary.

You say you couldn't survive on part time wages so how would you fair as a single parent?

That Explains alot. My contracted hours are not that many. But I very rarely actually do them. Instead I have over time just put on the rota without even being asked.

If we take on new staff if there's 40 hours going they won't hire a 40 hour or a 30 hour plus a 10 hour part time which would suit a student fir evenings or a weekend. Instead they split it to 2 20 hour jobs.

Having seen that quote I'm gonna.assume that it's because someone doing 30 or 40 hours will not do the over time. But someone doing 20 will more likely take it because its too full time to really do a part time job around it.

Its also what makes me wary of leaving because between probation periods akd forced over time id ve worried that od ve in a worse position I am.now and without a long service record to fall back k on

How about “guarantee”, since the point is to ensure a very modest income floor?

Yes - just something to take away the weird tone implied by benefits.

The vocabulary that this government's comms apparatchiks has introduced with the connivance of its Cabinet members is appalling, isn't it?

'Top up benefits'

'Handouts'

Just fuck off.