to be confused about social services

[whentheraincame]

Bit of a long one but it's something I have thought about a long time. There's two narratives:

SS don't do enough; don't act to remove children in obvious danger (happens sometimes of course)

SS are overzealous; remove children from loving homes (going to happen at times, right?)

there was a show over ten years ago called I Want my Baby Back and it was absolutely heartbreaking and admittedly it terrified me. Basically hairline fractures were found in children and parents were blamed for abuse. The argument was (I forget details and could never watch again) from some doctors that these were the result of Vitamin D deficiency (which let's face it, was endemic a while back and in the news loads)

So the argument was those children were wrongly removed. One mother cried "I want my baby" and honestly it's never left me. I'll have a cry about this later as I always do if I think too much about a child being removed from a loving mum.

So my question is if anyone has proper insight. I'm scared of SS in general. Although I actually had involvement with them myself when I left an abusive ex and they came to check I was not going to go back, nothing further happened once they met me - so proof they are fine I guess.

But I remember seeing a lady on the news, well spoken, and saying SS need to return her children who were removed. I had a friend tell me in work once that a friend with undiagnosed autism got the children removed due an incident where one got hurt by the other (which happens. these things happen, children do get hurt and it's often an accident that couldn't be prevented)

I guess I just don't want to see SS as evil child snatchers, and want insight into how they operate in reality and what actually gets children removed from parents' care?

Removing a child is so difficult and always a last resort. There is always extensive intervention first to try and keep the family together but sometimes parents just will not engage. Sometimes separation is inevitable - eg sex offenders in the home, chronic neglect, injuries etc.

When there are things like fractures, bruises etc any injury that cannot be explained or is thought to be inconsistent with the explanation given will be investigation by way of a Child Protection Medical by a specialist doctor. Sometimes this will mean blood tests, skeletal survey (x-ray), CT scan, eye tests as well as a full body examination. Social workers know that accidents happen and children do get injuries. However a few bruises to the leg or arms is much different from a child with broken ribs, fractured skull etc.

Honestly I’m proud to be a social worker. I love my job but it’s so frustrating getting communication from family members to voice their outrage that children have been removed when it’s clear they have a tiny fraction of the story.

Personally, I’ve never met a social worker that is a bad egg. Inefficient maybe because of a high case load, but not malicious. We all do the job because we want the children we work for to have better daily lived experiences. Some people cannot comprehend the things that we see and decisions that have to be made to keep children safe from the very people who are meant to love and protect them. Unfortunately as humans ourselves, there will be mistakes made. However removing children is not just the decision of a social worker, all sorts of professionals contribute to making that decision. Think teachers, health visitors, school nurses, police, drug and alcohol workers, domestic abuse workers, psychologist etc. Ultimately it’s up to the judge based on the evidence provided by a variety of people. A social work report is just one piece of the puzzle.

Vindictive and thick is a bad combination and a lot of social workers seem to have this in spades. I wouldn't trust one for a million quid.

@Jellycatspyjamas foster care is not safe and secure. Almost 30% of dc in fc move 3 or more times a year, stable placements aren't the norm and you know it. I also didn't say it should be reviewed every 6 months either so don't put words in my mouth.

No it’s not, but if you have a permanence order the child can be placed with long term carers who can provide a greater degree of security. in many cases the child still maintains contact with birth parents but they won’t have responsibility for their care.

And you didn’t say the placement needs to be reviewed every 6 months - the law does. In the absence of a permanence order, which removes the parents right to “another chance”.

@Revolvingwhore

Couldn't have said this better myself. And it's probably got a lot to do with the insane amount of work they have to manage.
How they are expected to actually look after children when they have so many is beyond me and should be changed.

My nan said there is always shitty SW but some of them are damn right evil. And they have SO MUCH power. It's incredible the decisions they can make that are life changing just on a whim because of the title.

I'm a teacher and have had contact with SS through some of my form group and the school in general.

In my experience of the children who are removed - by that stage it would be very hard for these families to find a way back despite support. However we have a lot of families at risk where I think more intensive support could be more impactful.

I read about how SW has been revolutionised in Leeds to support any vulnerable families proactively from the outset and it's been very successful.

It's incredible the decisions they can make that are life changing just on a whim because of the title.

They couldn't even if they wanted to.
Decisions are made at court, by a judge. There are lengthy hearings with opportunities for each side to present their evidence, gain extra reports etc.
Even if social services are totally convinced about the level of risk a child is at they can do nothing by themselves.
Only the police have this power and even then only for a short period of time.

I cannot believe the insanely wrong information being given here. SW will and do take children immediately. It is not a long process at all. They did not try to work with us and even our childrens guardian didn't agree with them.

The only mechanism to remove a child immediately is where there is evidence of actual or risk of significant harm or the need for immediate assessment of the same where there is a significant concern that the child will be harmed if they aren’t removed immediately. It’s not a long process, it’s an emergency process where the court approves a Child Protection Order., which gives powers to remove with a tight review period to look at longer term planning.

Courts remove children - the law

social workers compile reports for court - parents have legal representation and the child - yes there are some lazy shit social workers - often agency staff - but on the whole social workers are just trying to do their jobs - often with too many kids on their case loads, no adequate funding, poor managers, no support (chronic shortage of personal advisers for example), high levels of sickness/stress adding to pressure

They can't do their jobs properly, are terrified they will drop the ball, trying to be in 3 places at once - while inevitably taking their eye off the other 15 kids on their caseloads - it's a high stress job, badly funded - plus drastic cuts in support services (CHAMS for example) a shortage of foster carers and supported accommodation, endless meetings just to keep within the legal timeframes

I work with a wide team of social workers - across different departments in children's social care - I would say all of them are trying, a minority are effective, the rest are newly qualified, burnt out or agency (some good by the way) and the rest invisible due to being vacant posts

People often talk from their own negative experiences, understandably, but there is a bigger picture - most sw's are just trying their best in a very broken system - and they sometimes fuck up

You want that to change - vote for a party that will use taxes to fund services - better still - become a SW!

In my case the police found no wrong doing and were absolutely brilliant. We had 4 different social workers before it was brought to a judge. So none of them spent enough time with our family to know what was right for our children. The deciding social worker who went to court spent 11 minutes with us and our children. Her report was taken to court after being rushed in 2 weeks from meeting her. She retired after us so couldn't really give a crap what happened to our family. Luckily the judge saw sense but it took a lot of work and a hell of a lot of absolute torture for us and more importantly our children.

In this time our youngest was started on an adoption plan. Always best to get it started before the final decision so they can whisk them away quickly.

I haven't the time nor the inclination to write down the whole story of what happened to me, I've actually got diagnosed PTSD after that ss did to me.

A brief summary, ex become financially, emotionally and physically abusive when dd was about two months old (punching me, torturing my dog, breaking into my home , the list goes on, sadly), in my efforts to get him out of my house, I called the police. Referrals were made and I asked for help.

I was witch hunted from the beginning. Ex made a series of allegations against me, SS refused to believe me, despite reams of evidence that his allegations were untrue. SS actually prevented me from getting a non mol out against him, as advised by the police, they said it would impact his contact with dd (!!!) among many other grave errors. At one point, the sw said she wouldn't figure out a category to put the cause for concern into, so said she had settled for physical abuse. Even though as soon as he had left the house she was at no bloody risk, except they forced me to give her to him for contact. She once came back from contact with a bruise on her cheek and a scratch on her face, and I was told 'babies hurt themselves' and accused of trying to obstruct contact.

It got to PLO stage, and SS were still preparing to take me to court for dd, despite everything!!! He continued to make allegation after allegation, literally running with it, despite obviously me not even seeing him! These were taken as gospel and at face value. The whole reason this started was because I needed to safeguard my baby.

Eventually, after I insisted on fair treatment for both of us (hair strand tests for god's sake, psychological assessments, prior records searched etc - they were adamant that only I should be investigated initially!), the truth all came out.

He is now no longer allowed to see her or contact her, court ordered, she has had a surname change, court ordered, I have a non mol and a PSO order against him that will last until she is 16. The words 'I told you so' have never felt so hollow.

There was a stage 2 investigation into my case, and out of 14 points, 13 were upheld. I got a grovelling apology from the Head of Service, two of the social workers involved were sacked.

But that doesn't excuse the fact that they basically stole the first year and a half of my daughter's life from me. And she was very nearly taken for me.

Oh and whilst they were busy castigating me, two children in the borough were murdered by their families, resulting in serious case reviews.

There is obviously a lot more to this, for example, he broke into my house, and took my keys, and then during a ss visit, when they required him to be in my home, he threw the keys at my head, and they hit me in the face, cutting my cheek. The sw skirted over this in her notes but said 'he was upset'.

It really worries me that someone less intelligent, less educated with no access to the resources I had, may well have had their child taken off them.

It's made me feel sick to write this out, and this is only very brief with a few examples.

A social worker came to see me once because I’d taken my son to hospital ‘too many times’ Sorry for being a concerned first time mum 🙄 I was made to feel like a criminal and it put me off ever taking him to the hospital or GP again.

It’s scaremongering as taken out of context. There is no such thing as a child looking desirable for adoption. Yes it is true that very young children and babies are more likely to be adopted as a lot of people want to have a family from scratch and not a troubled child that has a history of trauma at 6 upwards. Realistically they will probably be in long term foster care as opposed to adoption. However, that doesn’t mean that social workers are like predators waiting in the wings for a ‘desirable’ baby to profit from. Sometimes the best decision for a child is to remove at birth, 1, 2 etc depending on the ABUSE they have suffered. Sometimes babies are removed to prevent them from being abused as the caregivers may have abused previous children. Before an extreme measure of adoption, the local authority will look at every possible family member to take the child, even cousin John who’s three times removed etc. Sadly sometimes there isn’t a family member to take the child or they can’t pass assessments to demonstrate they can meet the child’s need. Love is not enough, it simply isn’t. I don’t doubt that any of the parents I work with don’t love the bones of their kids but the sad fact is that a lot of them simply cannot care for them or prioritise their needs. After all of this, then adoption is considered. And unlike what people say, there isn’t a fat cheque ready to be paid when a child is adopted. That local authority is tens of thousands of pounds out of pocket to remove and accommodate that child. Not even mentioning the extra workload that puts on social workers. It really isn’t like how some people portray who have zero knowledge of the system.

Yes they’re made a by judge but if that if he is being presented with errors and misconstruances by incompetent social workers then the families don’t have a cats chance in hell do they

No social worker can just go and remove a child ffs. There are numerous meetings with numerous professionals and the CP chair is usually shit hot on the SW to have done everything they needed to do. Then it goes to the legal team, then it goes to court and yes there are times when the guardian disagrees. The SWs case doesn't always resolve in taking the child, ultimately a judge decides.

There are CP workers who are over zelous, who's unconscious bias plays a large part (esp without adequate supervision) and who get a bit - on their high horse about things. Just like in all areas of life. It isn't down to an individual worker though. Some aren't good at seeing outside the box. We have a creative solutions board in my LA to help us with this.

The whole system needs a radical reboot. Money gets poured down the drain, care leavers have SHIT outcomes. I heard once (in uni) 79% of sex workers are care leavers. The system doesn't work and pretending it does because you're feeling defensive is bollocks.

I am not a social worker but I was a member of a legal tribunal that determined whether compulsory measures are needed for children to keep them safe.

The vast majority of social workers I came across were caring, compassionate, intelligent and very overworked. Of course like every profession there were also some duds. Same with the teachers, health visitors and solicitors I came across too.

Social workers don't actually have the power to remove children. They make recommendations it, but its not their decision. Police can remove a child at risk of immediate harm. Otherwise in Scotland the decision to remove a child is taken by the Sheriff or by the Children's Panel. In England its by the Courts (I believe).

There is no whim. There are lots of checks and balances and appeals at every stage.

Ultimately, if your child has been removed then its because it wasn't safe for your child to remain with you.

Oh and one of the sw actually said she enjoyed coming to my home for visits as she knew she wouldn't be in danger, would get a cup of tea and could take her shoes off and relax. The mind actually boggles.

Every single other professional that I worked with, and who observed me with dd, even the baby group I went to was reporting back on me, stated no concerns. In fact the opposite. And that dd and I were flourishing despite the ongoing campaign.

I actually bumped into one of them a few weeks back, and she said she uses my case all the time when training staff for just how awful ss can be.

@maizeymazemaze

I am sorry that happened to you.

It is a bit misleading to say that social workers don’t make the decisions, the judges do. That might technically be true. It doesn’t make it a system without bias and prejudice. The judges act on what the SWs tell them.

You do realise this is not the social workers fault. She would have a received a referral likely from the Hospital or GP which would have had to outline the concerns (threshold) enough for them to act on it

Social workers will often get the police to use a police protection order before a court order it’s quicker

This thread just highlights how little people know about social workers and how they operate.

Removing children is not always completed through courts because as a social worker regardless of circumstances you really want the family to work alongside you to resolve the issues so when children need to be removed this is also done on a voluntary basis in which the family agree that this should happen, children are then usually placed with a close relative or family friend for the interim.

t really worries me that someone less intelligent, less educated with no access to the resources I had, may well have had their child taken off them

Yes, and the scary thing is it could happen to anyone one of us. You can be the best parent in the world who never put a foot wrong and SS will destroy you. When I reported the man my DD made a disclosure about I didn’t actually realise that SS would be in our lives. And it has totally out me off ever reporting anything ever again

I have mixed feelings about this. Firstly, I have to say SW do an extremely difficult job and have ridiculous caseloads. Then they get blamed when things go wrong. There are some wonderful SWs out there and some not so good.

I have had experience of Children's Services involvement with my DC. And there was a hell of a lot of incompetence. For example when they became involved (due to my mental health) I let them know I had a new boyfriend. They told me they would need to do a background check on him. All fine with me. Time passed and we went to a Child protection conference which he attended (we didn't meet threshold and the DC were kept on Child in need) and over a year later when he had become a part of my DC's lives they told me they hadn't done the check! I also found that they would jump to conclusions or make assumptions about things and they were always right (i.e they had met my DC once and knew more about them than I did), as an example - I told them my autistic DC didn't like his cuddly toys being touched on his bed as he had them set up in a certain way - therefore they concluded I never changed his bed.

@Jellycatspyjamas emergency indeed. Although it was not an emergency at all. The social worker that made this decision or at least put it forward, had been off on long term sick because she had put forward a child for adoption that was later murdered by the adoptive parents at the age of 18 months. It was on the news.

The child was CLEARLY abused by these people BEFORE being officially adopted and was still put forward to be permanently placed with these monsters. And she only advised the adoptive parents to take the child to the hospital after witnessing multiple bruises and broken bones but never reported it. Nothing was done and the poor child was killed when she should have been safe.

In turn, we were treated as guilty from the moment we met. I can imagine the guilt she carries as she went back on the sick after our case.

I was actually the one who sought advice from a medical professional for a health concern I had with my younger child only to be treated as an abuser.

Yes courts rely on reports compiled by SW's - and schools, nurseries, health visitors, GP's, police - not just SW

But if there are not enough SW's or they leave, go sick then you might see a duty worker - different one every time, and they may not have the time to actually compile the report properly - also their manager, legal dept and head of service have to approve and referral to court - which is not done over night

People need to wake up and understand the state of your local authority services right now - there is no bloody money, no staff and social work is in crisis

People want social workers to learn from past mistakes.
Repeated a&e admissions are a red flag that there could be serious abuse issues.
The serious case reviews following Childers deaths have taught us that.
That is why a certain number of visits to a&e can trigger a referral to SWs.

There is no way for either staff at the hospital or social workers to know what is happening unless they actually go out and check.