to be confused about social services

[whentheraincame]

Bit of a long one but it's something I have thought about a long time. There's two narratives:

SS don't do enough; don't act to remove children in obvious danger (happens sometimes of course)

SS are overzealous; remove children from loving homes (going to happen at times, right?)

there was a show over ten years ago called I Want my Baby Back and it was absolutely heartbreaking and admittedly it terrified me. Basically hairline fractures were found in children and parents were blamed for abuse. The argument was (I forget details and could never watch again) from some doctors that these were the result of Vitamin D deficiency (which let's face it, was endemic a while back and in the news loads)

So the argument was those children were wrongly removed. One mother cried "I want my baby" and honestly it's never left me. I'll have a cry about this later as I always do if I think too much about a child being removed from a loving mum.

So my question is if anyone has proper insight. I'm scared of SS in general. Although I actually had involvement with them myself when I left an abusive ex and they came to check I was not going to go back, nothing further happened once they met me - so proof they are fine I guess.

But I remember seeing a lady on the news, well spoken, and saying SS need to return her children who were removed. I had a friend tell me in work once that a friend with undiagnosed autism got the children removed due an incident where one got hurt by the other (which happens. these things happen, children do get hurt and it's often an accident that couldn't be prevented)

I guess I just don't want to see SS as evil child snatchers, and want insight into how they operate in reality and what actually gets children removed from parents' care?

In terms of fractures, if you want hair-raising medical dogma stories involving the SS, look up metaphysical fractures.

I have experience of this - it’s the ultimate catch 22 for an accused parent.

Yes, because this case really proves the “strength of the system”. This poor little girl should never have been returned to her parents and she’s far from the only one.

amp.lbc.co.uk/news/parents-murdered-baby-after-social-worker-visit-court-hears/

The system is broken and pretending otherwise is frankly a disaster for any poor child who is suffering.

Children being permanently removed from their birth parent/s is always an absolute last resort. Around 30% of children who enter the care system are returned to their birth family, within two years around 47% percent have returned to care, within five that figure is around 65%. Children returned to birth parents rather than a member of the birth family were the children most likely to return to care.

Children who are removed from the birth family completely are only removed as an absolute last resort, this is when no one in the birth family is suitable, or no one in the birth family wants to take the child/ren on.

My sons older birth siblings had SS involvement for about five years before they were finally taken into care, like many older children (they were not 5) the truama they have suffered means they will never ever be independent, they will need care and support for the rest of their lives. My son was very young, so his chances are better, but he has still suffered attachment difficults, neglect and high levels of physical abuse, some of which has caused permanent physical problems. SS did absolutely everything they could to support the birth parent, apart from actually having a carer live in the family home 24/7 they could not have done more.

Birth mum went on to have another baby who was removed at birth.

Metaphyseal that should say. Bloody autocorrect.

The one case that stuck with me the lady went on This Morning so it will be on YouTube. Her newborn was taken from her care and they were accused of abuse when it was a blood disorder. She had an older child who was placed in foster care until this was found out. Absolutely heartbreaking.

I family I know who SS are potentially looking at removing the DC from a loving mum is because of mum's mental health. There has been no harm caused to the DC, but SS are worried mum isn_t coping. It's sad because with the right support I believe she could cope but as we know MH services are cut to the bone.

Hah!
As part of my custody court case all SS files were released to the court. Within them was a conversation between the school SENDCO and a SW. I have seen it, I own a copy!
But I can't share it because it was part of a child arrangements case.
I have been trying to get it released for over a bloody year and half!
SENDCO claims SS don't respond to her requests, freedom of information 'can't find it' even though I have the names, date and bloody time of the conversion!

I'm a teacher and I have to say that in all the dealings I have had with SWs in the past, I've never met a competent one yet.

I once knew a neighbour of a friend that had just qualified and got a job as a SW in children's services. Before she told me this I had assumed she was unemployed and on benefits as her life and her family seemed somewhat chaotic. Anyway she was boasting that she had been promoted really quickly to some higher position like a case manager or area manager or something.

Well I wouldn't have let her look after my goldfish let alone trusted her opinion on what good enough parenting looked like.

Obviously not all SWs are like this but clearly there are many who do the job that really don't have the right qualities and expertise (and yes, like a PP said, I would say it's definitely the same in teaching too).

Yes but the social worker would have acted on medical advice do you really think a social worker can make assumptions like this without medical input or intervention. If a child has a suspicious bruises or injury we may ask for them to be brought to their own family GP for an assessment that day. The MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL makes a judgement and the social workers have to act on this of course!

I'm rolling my eyes because files don't get burned like that. Laptops can be smashed all they want but information isn't stored on a laptop where only one person can access. It's stored on a data base that you use the laptop to access. It has been for many years.

Also I feel badly for anyone who might come across this thread and think twice (or 200x) about engaging with the CP worker because of what you wrote. This may lead to a negative outcome for someone and their dc because of misinformation.

Yes the system is shit. Yes there are a lot of dc that could and should be returned to parents. Yes SWs can make shit mistakes that have awful consequences but it's not the majority. It just needs a radical change and better relationship building skills between CP SW and parents. Relationship work works. The scare mongering about SS really doesn't help and there's no recourse to counter what really happened so more people get scared of them.

@GreenIsle then it's the social workers and the medical professionals who need to be retrained in these situations. Had said medical professional voiced concern, ultimately it's the social workers job to decide if the child should be removed or not? And surely shouldn't medical conditions be rules out BEFORE children are taken from their parents??

Of course and that's up to doctors and medical professionals to do this as part of their job and not jump to conclusions without evidence.

How will the children be kept safe in the meantime? Or are we going to just keep our fingers crossed that the chidren who don’t have a medical condition won’t be subjected to further harm?

I see your point. And I have mentioned that we had a good experience with a social worker too as it wouldn't be fair to say they are all the same.

But it is important for people to be wary. I was completely naive and I wish I had known that they can be toxic to your family as I would have treaded differently.

We did everything that was asked of us and ultimately I felt bullied and I felt like I was being taken for a joke. Being told to do things because they could essentially. We still did it though, as our solicitor advised of course.

I would advise anyone with SS involvement to fully comply and frankly when they say jump you ask how high. It's the only way to get anywhere because they have full control of your life and it is terrifying.

We had a lot of paperwork, I assume some stored on various computers somewhere. Most of what we had was in paper form. Unfortunately the social worker we had also used this method. Maybe it's different for different LAs.

It's the council not the individual SW @Bentoforthehorde who agrees what paperwork can be released to who. I can't go in my system and access someone on my caseloads court report bundle. I'd have to go to legal and request it. The individual SW wouldn't be able to release that information. Try your LAs legal/information team.

To be honest, I can only speak from my own experience. I had SS involvement as a child, they didn't take us away when they should have.
I had SS involvement repeatedly when DD was a baby, I was struggling with my MH, was groomed and had no support. They left us alone as I didn't meet the requirements for intervention, which seems mental. I was spiralling and honestly am shocked myself it didn't continue to get worse.

I don't think that they fall into the category of evil child snatchers at all.
I know my mum liked to feed into that narrative, but that was partially down to not being able to see the dysfunction in the family.

@Simonjt well, hospitals are open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And I would say sending a child to a hospital for some blood tests to save the mental and physical heartbreak of being separated from your child, is a small ask.

A blood test can be done quickly and results returned quickly. It doesn't need to take weeks/months for this to happen. Meanwhile an innocent child is placed with a family they do not know for what could be absolutely no reason

My parents were foster carers for years.
It's true to say that it is a chronically understaffed and underfunded system.
As in all areas there are good and bad people.
The length of time (or lack of rather)they stay in role and caseloads have the biggest negative impact imo.
I have seen children returned home when it was clearly not in their best interests to anyone who cared to take more than a cursory look.
I have seen other children removed from struggling parents who really loved their children but needed some practical help.

I love children (6 of my own, and I'm a teacher) but could never foster as I couldn't bite my tongue as much as my parents had to with SS.

I'm my job, it's clear that Covid has had an impact and cases of neglect / safe guarding that would once have warranted action from SS now get referred to early help or we get told to 'Keep an eye.'

Ridiculous and quite scary actually.

@Simonjt if there is a concern about an injury or potential abuse then it depends on the circumstances. In a lot of cases a child will actually state who has done it to them. In some cases such as a baby who cannot speak for themselves then within the same day the child will be examined by medical
Professionals with parental consent and tests completed, family will be interviewed by police and social workers, background checks and speaking to other professionals involved with the family such as their Gp. A family member can be identified to be with the child if both parents are suspect but if only one parent is suspect then the other parent will be with the child.

In real life most physical injuries are easily seen such as bruising and marks (such as cigarette burns for example). The Police are experienced on interview parents and looking at the scene if it is stated that the child fell off something from height. It is squally the hospital that calls social workers when a child in brought in because they themselves are suspicious.

@Simonjt most children who present to a&e with injury's are not referred to social services because the injury and explanation match up.

You are aware that all children are innocent no matter what their parents do. Many conditions cannot be diagnosed with a quick and simple blood test, how long would you personally be happy for a child to be left at risk for while results were collated, one day, one week, one month?

You’ve got a profession that often gets the heat when things go wrong, so is poorly thought of, that then creates a situation where young, often not terribly gifted people are being churned in but not retained (unless they don’t have much empathy or are, exemptionally, called to the vocation). I’ve met a good number of SW professionally who don’t have the kind of people skills you would hope for them to have. Those skilled and capable social workers (those exist too!) feel demoralised and leave in greater number.
Then of course the obscene under funding, over burden of administration and data rather than people centric care…

The result is that both things happen- children who should be removed, aren’t and children are inappropriately removed. I’ve seen both situations. It’s fundamentally unsafe and the SW professionals I know as friends have admitted as much and are looking to get out.

It’s a terrible state of affairs.

I am sorry you had that experience @when2become3 and these experiences can completely change how we view the world. There are definitely shit SWs (I know as I was in care). I remember my best friends mum SW telling her she would get my best friend a new bed if she cleared her room and got rid of the bed, then the court case happened and the SW said my friend didn't have a bed. But there are also shit GPs.

I think I'm pretty balanced in that I've had care experience and 20 years after became part of the system. I can see both sides. Some people just won't admit there are wrong doings - just like they say the parent won't.

There are definitely different types of SWs. I won't say that they're all good and I won't say the system works because it doesn't. We don't do enough before or after care. I don't think most CP SWs understand the terror they inflict, they might theoretically but not in practice. I was absolutely terrified of SS when my dc were small, even when I became one!

@Simonjt a child would never be left at risk if there is suspected injuries whilst medical assessment is underway, what are you even blabbering on about. The medical assessments are very quick because of the circumstances. A child will be placed in a safe environment whilst this happens such as with the other parent or family, usually with consent from the parent because they understand that it needs to take place to either rule non accidental injuries or not.

SnowWhitesSM
our fson has been with us for over 10 years. For the first 3 we had meeting after meetings. Parents kept promising change but could never maintain, kept throwing family’s names into the hat as to who could look after him. When Sw went around to meet the family members they would immediately withdraw when they knew how intrusive the interviews were.
All this time poor child didn’t know whether they were coming or going. Mum would tell them they were decorating their room for when they returned, how they would all be happy together again. Causing so much trauma.
Eventually enough was enough, parents were told that he was not returning home, when fson was told he was staying with us he was relieved, finally felt safe and secure.
Parents eventually stopped turning up for contact, I often ask if he wants me to contact them but he says no.
Would it have been better for all this uncertainty in his life to go on for years until they finally got themselves sorted out and then drag him from all of the relationships he has built up over the last 10 years just to keep mum and dad happy????