To think ‘hybrid working’ is a bit shit actually?

[OctopusDare]

(Full disclosure: I’m really hoping all the replies are “YABU because my employer is doing it properly and it’s great”, to give me some hope to look elsewhere. Please also let me know if you’re hiring.)

My office job went WFH at the start of the pandemic. This was shit for those of us who don’t like WFH, but okay, pandemic. This year we have been trying ‘hybrid’ working. What this means is that coming into the office sometimes is ‘encouraged’. In practice it looks like this:

• Senior people mostly don’t, except their bosses want them to, so what we get is them regularly hassling us to “have a conversation with your manager about what works for you and your team! But come in sometimes! But it’s entirely up to you! But also you should definitely come in sometimes,” on Zoom calls from their lovely garden offices.

• About two-thirds of people say they want to work out of the office some of the week, but that they don’t want to go in if it’s nearly empty, they only want to go in if there are other people there to work with. And this never seems to get co-ordinated, so in practice people just… don’t go in because it’s empty because of all the other people who aren’t there because they don’t want to go in if it’s empty.

• For those of us who are in, the office is bleak and weird to work from and feels like a post-apocalyptic disaster film.

• Because of all this it’s really hard to train up new people to do anything other than very process-based work. We have lost some newer recruits because they felt like they weren’t getting to meet people or learn from them, and because they didn’t like the choice between working from home and working from a near-empty office on their own.

• There is ENDLESS whining, on and on and on and on, from some of the people who want to WFH full-time and feel like they’re being ‘pressured’ to go back in. “But I am more productive from home!”, says the person who just emailed a distribution list of 40 of us to complain yet again at length about how much he hates offices.

• Endless amounts of time trying to work out “hybrid ways of working” which all just end up the worst of both worlds. Like meetings - the rule is now that we encourage meetings to be in-person, but everyone in person should have their laptops in front of them with cameras on and talk to the camera, so that the people joining from home don’t feel left out. Which is rubbish. So people don’t do it and just work from home, which the managers then complain about, which… etc etc etc.

I liked the idea of hybrid working, but in practice it feels like the worst of both worlds. All the bad points of WFH except with added faff and stress and whining and uncertainty.

Are there places which are making this work? (And by ‘making this work’ I do not mean ‘the office is open for people who want it i suppose but I personally don’t leave my house’, we already have that, I mean a proper mix of in-person and at-home.) Or is hybrid just inevitably shit?

I've done differing amounts of wfh for almost the past 15 years. I have a home office with better tech than is available in the office - I appreciate that the situation is very different for someone in a shared house, perched on the end of their bed for Teams meetings or those with caring responsibilities that grow exponentially when at home.

My experience of any flexibility has been that lazy middle-managers (those who feel that they were robbed of a more senior position and have chosen to retire early in-post) have spoiled things for everyone else. I remember smart-casual being replaced with a return to suits because of a senior manager wearing shorts and a torn polo shirt, micromanagement arising from managers being unavailable between 11am and 2pm or answering their work phone from the car or the supermarket.

My boss is in the office at least 3 days each week, although I don't have to come in at all, I do at least two days in the office to see him or just ensure a presence. Those that never come in seem to fall into two camps; those who worry that everyone else is working flat-out and who do far more than contracted hours and those who feel the reverse and seem to do almost nothing.

The reliable deliverers are now given all of the critical work. I earn more than my boss, so don't mind the occasional 70 hour week. Circumstances have so far disguised the impact of who does what, but a change after Christmas will reveal the true state of affairs and I expect that to be painful for some.

It suits me but the senior management take the piss. I’ve worked in my job since November and have met my team manager once for 3 hours two weeks ago. She’s the one insisting we go into the office once a week when none of us actually NEED the office

My department are hybrid working since March this year and it works well. We worked out a rota basis so everyone is only in the office 1 day per week, so it means my team have an onsite presence Mon-Fri but each team member is only in once.

It makes manangement happy, and the team are glad we can still WFH the majority of the time

I agree , especially about training up new staff, making them feel welcome and part of the organisation.
We've had people leave quite quickly because they don't want to wfh.

We have a rota so that we should know who is in on any given day, but not everyone adds their name on, so you don't really know who is in.

Agree about the whingers. To my mind these are people who have clearly forgotten about the support they got when being trained in their roles. They were perfectly able to come into work and manage risk pre pandemic . Those of us who go into the office end up doing more of a certain type of admin work imo.

I think we have it right. A business-wide minimum (you must do 2 full days in the office if you are full time, pro rata for PT) and a rota for those days (although occasionally people swap a day about).

These are mostly set days, but you must cross over with your manager and you must cross over anyone you manage. Some people do more, no-one does less.

Everyone must be flexible and cover in the office if requested.

In the team, there are some roles that need to be in the office for most of what they do. There is another rota for them, but they all get one day a week WFH.

Very little resentment/whining etc. I put that down to very clear expectations.

Because of all this it’s really hard to train up new people to do anything other than very process-based work. We have lost some newer recruits because they felt like they weren’t getting to meet people or learn from them, and because they didn’t like the choice between working from home and working from a near-empty office on their own.

THIS is the biggest problem. WFH is absolutely useless for trainees & new recruits as they don't have people around them to mentor them or for them to pick up work life skills. Having someone available by phone or skype really isn't anywhere near an adequate alternative. As usual, the young are being screwed.

In a few years time, staff and employers will be whingeing about a lack of "younger" staff to take over the older ones who leave or retire.

We ask people to come in at least two days a week. Those who prefer to work in an office can do more. We are explicit about requiring attendance for some meetings, inductions and training.

It’s settled well now. Senior staff follow the same principles and we’re also scheduled some interesting face to face sessions that staff actually want to attend. Plus the office is air conditioned!

Although some roles can be done well just remotely, internal communication and cross team working is better when people come to the office sometimes. After a couple of months that started to become more obvious. Also, we are not rigid in the two days every week if there is a genuine reason, personal or professional. We just don’t let it become a regular occurrence.

@RedRosie
"I think we have it right. A business-wide minimum (you must do 2 full days in the office if you are full time, pro rata for PT) and a rota for those days (although occasionally people swap a day about).

These are mostly set days, but you must cross over with your manager and you must cross over anyone you manage. Some people do more, no-one does less.

Everyone must be flexible and cover in the office if requested."

I suspect that you are working in a very efficient and profitable business. A clear and reasonable explanation of expectations in six lines. Sadly, my organisation would use twice as many words in the title of the introduction to the document ... The policy you describe is the way to onboard new starters and keep old hands engaged and up to date - key in the current employee-led market.

I do find it challenging, and I'm doing 3 in and 2 at home (Mon, Tues, Thurs in office). This works for me but on Monday last week I was literally the only person in the office on my floor. What I don't love:

• Teams/zoom calls do not replace the value of an in person meeting for the most part, especially with people refusing to turn on their video
• WFH means no ability for a quick huddle to sort out a crisis
• I worry for development of junior staff - they are missing out on learning from experience or overhearing or being pulled into a meeting or a quick coffee meet and greet
• WFH reduces your ability to put your personal brand out there
• Certain conversations cannot be held virtually and trying to use code words for confidentiality is a pain and confusing
• Mental health - socialising is so important and is getting out of the house

Being selfish, I wish everyone would do 3 days in the office lol.

OP

i guessing your employer is a bit shit generally? Because this is the management of rather than the method itself that is the shit show

This sounds like a great approach. I would not want to go back to full-time in the office (although I’d take it over full-time work from home).

Definitely the fuzziness around expectations at my work has caused a lot of the grumbling and resentment. I really wish senior management would get their act together.

We have lost some newer recruits because they felt like they weren’t getting to meet people or learn from them, and because they didn’t like the choice between working from home and working from a near-empty office on their own.

My husband's firm lost employees because they didn't offer hybrid working. 🤔

They are great in many ways, don’t get me wrong, but in terms of actually making corporate-level decisions rather than everyone waffling round in circles for eternity… yes, a bit shit.

Bloody hell, that does sound shit

because that passiveness is leading day in and day out frustration and annoyance for a number of their employees it would seem due to lack of clarity and vision re home / work working.

we are not talking about whether or not they provide coffee for staff, we are talking about the essence of their working life!

Have you raised the issue OP? With your employer and not just mumsnet!

I was mostly wfh during the pandemic (NHS admin) and it was one reason why I left as I enjoy the buzz of an office.

In my new job I gather they wfh for ages as well but now we are very much encouraged to come in. Many people live a fair way away (30mins+ commute is not unusual) and some live a long way off, so the very far away people come in once a week or once a fortnight, but everyone else is usually in. So I am not sure if it counts as hybrid, but some people have a regular day they work from home, or take one or at most two days from home in a week (usually for child-related reasons). I tend to be in the office every day but it's good to know that I can be at home - and I tend to take advantage of that once or twice a month. So for instance last week I had a half day bc we were going to the C Games and there was no point driving 35 mins for four hours so I wfh in the morning. It was nice to have a lazier start to the day tbf.

Meetings are usually held in a meeting room (there are numerous) with a big screen, so anyone who is dialling in for whatever reason (covid positive but feeling OK is a reason to wfh until negative) is visible to all.

It works well; yesterday seemed very quiet and I felt like I barely spoke to anyone for more than two minutes, but it was a) Friday (often a day off if you do four days) b) August so holiday time so seems legit. The previous day we had a massive cake sale and raffle for charity and loads of people got involved. Most days there is music, chat, client visitors, a real buzz. This is a creative agency btw so other offices would be quieter in general. It's good to be back tho.

I think as a new recruit hybrid working can seem great until you try it.

I am full time home based which suits me as I'm disabled. In fact, next month is the first time in over a year, I have to meet a client in person as normally its all online. My manager is also home based. I negotiated for my contract to be home based as a reasonable adjustment but everyone has different preferences.

What I do hate, is hybrid jobs being advertised as remote. That's deliberately misleading. It gives the impression that you can do the job entirely remote. Also jobs that say 'work from anywhere' but go to London one day a week. That's not fucking work from anywhere, that's work from a commuting distance of London!

We've not had an office to go back to until recently. Most of my team are based elsewhere in the UK but there are 3 of us in the same department but different teams reasonable close to this new office. Pre pandemic we sat together. So, 2 of us only work work 4 days but that leaves 3 days. At the moment the whole building isn't up and running so there are only 4 desks that we are able to book between about a dozen people. So we've agreed that the 3 of us or at least 2 will come in 1 day a week and book desks beside each other. Once there are more desks available to us we might increase that to 2.

Teams meetings were quite rare pre pandemic but now we do them all the time and it is easier at home.

I'm sure it will work out, it was actually nice seeing people that I hadn't seen for years, it was pretty quiet but it's hard to tell what it will b like going forward once more desks are set up.

@CrabbitBastard I do think it’s great if you are managing a health issue or disability. My brother is hybrid working and it has changed his life energy wise as he has a disability

Oh yes. But it’s a big organisation and the wheels turn very slowly. Or backwards, sometimes.

Part of the issue is that many people in relatively senior management quite like the setup as it is, where they pop in once a month or so and can order other people to be in at the same time as them for specific meetings. So they don’t have much motivation to change it and don’t much appreciate people who aren’t happy grumbling about it. I have been on calls where two levels is managers talked about what a great way of working we were pioneering, really making hybrid work for us, and everyone on the call except me was at home. 🤔

Why don't you coordinate with your (favourite? Most relevant?) colleagues to come into the office on the same day, rather than waiting for someone to do it for you?

Well it can go either way - I changed jobs a few months back and the difference is significant.

Last place was an org that had gone through some tough times, including a re-org in last 2 years. They clearly felt too bad about what everyone had been through to insist or even nudge towards any office return. They opened less than 50% of the office, no cafe, no events (normally quite a lot of internal and external events/meetings went on in the building). I started coming in once a week from early this year just for a change of scene and it was like the Mary Celeste. There'd been loads of churn so they'd taken on lots of new people, but loads of them were nowhere near London, there was not even a suggestion of a time for teams to come in together and most days there was <12 out of around 200 people in, even midweek. I literally don't know how they come out of it now. They need to reopen the office fully with events and the cafe but I'm not sure they can afford to now and I don't know what they could do to get people in.

New workplace is an absolutely amazing, beautifully designed office building, recently refitted. Midweek it is 70-80% occupied, which I expect is the same as it was before COVID (offices were averagely only 60% occupied before the pandemic). There's an atmosphere, good facilities, really lovely cafe. It's worth me going in twice a week to get a feel for the organisation and meet people. I don't think they did anything per se to get people in - a lot of people there have jobs that do require them to be in, or where it helps a lot. But basically - what gets people in is other people; you have to make that happen or it will all just fall apart. And TBH it is difficult if your office isn't especially nice like my new one is.

Caveat, I have never been good at making 'work friends' and am in a very small immediate team, so the 'hybrid' model makes that even harder

I think companies need to realise that COVID is over and most people are back to normal. WFH served it's purpose but that time is now over. If people don't want to go back to work they should just retire.

And what was the response when you raised? Ie open minded and plan to be addressed? Or clearly not going to change?

Poor business as clearly management don’t have a good grasp of their teams and their teams don’t feel comfortable enough to convey their frustrations properly - if management think it’s great and ignore any grumbling