To think ‘hybrid working’ is a bit shit actually?

[OctopusDare]

(Full disclosure: I’m really hoping all the replies are “YABU because my employer is doing it properly and it’s great”, to give me some hope to look elsewhere. Please also let me know if you’re hiring.)

My office job went WFH at the start of the pandemic. This was shit for those of us who don’t like WFH, but okay, pandemic. This year we have been trying ‘hybrid’ working. What this means is that coming into the office sometimes is ‘encouraged’. In practice it looks like this:

• Senior people mostly don’t, except their bosses want them to, so what we get is them regularly hassling us to “have a conversation with your manager about what works for you and your team! But come in sometimes! But it’s entirely up to you! But also you should definitely come in sometimes,” on Zoom calls from their lovely garden offices.

• About two-thirds of people say they want to work out of the office some of the week, but that they don’t want to go in if it’s nearly empty, they only want to go in if there are other people there to work with. And this never seems to get co-ordinated, so in practice people just… don’t go in because it’s empty because of all the other people who aren’t there because they don’t want to go in if it’s empty.

• For those of us who are in, the office is bleak and weird to work from and feels like a post-apocalyptic disaster film.

• Because of all this it’s really hard to train up new people to do anything other than very process-based work. We have lost some newer recruits because they felt like they weren’t getting to meet people or learn from them, and because they didn’t like the choice between working from home and working from a near-empty office on their own.

• There is ENDLESS whining, on and on and on and on, from some of the people who want to WFH full-time and feel like they’re being ‘pressured’ to go back in. “But I am more productive from home!”, says the person who just emailed a distribution list of 40 of us to complain yet again at length about how much he hates offices.

• Endless amounts of time trying to work out “hybrid ways of working” which all just end up the worst of both worlds. Like meetings - the rule is now that we encourage meetings to be in-person, but everyone in person should have their laptops in front of them with cameras on and talk to the camera, so that the people joining from home don’t feel left out. Which is rubbish. So people don’t do it and just work from home, which the managers then complain about, which… etc etc etc.

I liked the idea of hybrid working, but in practice it feels like the worst of both worlds. All the bad points of WFH except with added faff and stress and whining and uncertainty.

Are there places which are making this work? (And by ‘making this work’ I do not mean ‘the office is open for people who want it i suppose but I personally don’t leave my house’, we already have that, I mean a proper mix of in-person and at-home.) Or is hybrid just inevitably shit?

You've just described my workplace OP😄
Senior managers don't really want to come in, mainly I think because they are better equipped to work from spare room for dedicated home office etc
Our office building with free staff parking is being sold and we will move to smaller premises with no staff parking so there will no longer be room for everyone at the new office and at our current offices we no longer have our own desk so we hotdesk and have to bring our own equipment in, not to mention a cup and teabags, milk etc so it's a bit if a faff. Canteen is closed so no staff facilities. More people are coming in now but office still approx 70% empty and we still have desks set up for social distancing so you can't set up right next to a colleague and you dont see the same people or get to know them. So you are in the office but it can still be isolating unless you arrange with team members to come in on the same day which we do sometimes but understandably not everyone wants to .
In the meantime I'm working in my bedroom, DH in the lounge and it's feeling like work is encroaching more and more on our home and I miss the separation and headspace of having a separate office but on the other hand do like not having to commute and being able to hang out the washing !
I do feel for people just starting out on their careers it's isolating and training and building networks is hard . We've had a lot of new recruits leave.

We have to go in 40% which I hate. I deliberately choose to go in at the end of the week because it is quieter - I'm almost alone on a Friday. I always hated the yakking in the office as it was hard to concentrate. On Friday there are fewer people to bother me or yak loudly to others about their social life.

I clear c 12 - 15 cases a day at home and far fewer on office days, 10 if I'm lucky. However I would be disciplined for not coming in because 'it is good for us all to be together' -which of course we are not!

Unfortunately we have a white elephant of a brand new office in the middle of nowhere that has to be seen to be used.

I would love the flexibility of your situation and would just go in for monthly meetings.

@NoSquirrels Yes, our meeting rooms are set up so you just join the Teams meeting from them. Very straightforward! People in the office do calls from there (or from a booth with laptop occasionally) and people from home just join as usual. It's usually quite seamless!

Your organisation is doing it badly. We’re hybrid now (going from zero wfh pre pandemic) and state 2 days in the office minimum if you’re f/t, 1 day if you’re p/t. Teams generally have a day they’re all in, and in office days are ideally used for in person meetings as much as possible, so home days can be more ‘getting shit done’ - doesn’t always work in practice but it helps to have a guide, I get nothing done on my one day in the office except meetings and ‘quick chats’ (I’m HR so not a bad thing to have a day where people can just grab me) I have a new direct report at the moment and I’m also using that day we’re in together to train him in things best done sitting together. We also have a whole central team day once a month where we’re all in, but I work for an SME charity so there’s only 50-60 ish of us.

Having everyone in person in a meeting with their laptops still in front of them is madness, in the event one or two people were at home we’d have one laptop with them on it.

This working from home is for a lot of folk not a good idea. I think it will lead to mental health problems and feelings of isolation.

I work for two different clients. For one, the office is completely shut 2 days per week, and everyone is expected in the other 3 days (with a tiny bit of flexibility for childcare emergencies, etc).

The other is a bit like the OP describes - total flexibility, with a largely ignored gentle push to come in at least sometimes. This works not bad for me, but not everyone is convinced.

A lot of hybrid seems to be a battle between employers who want people in the office but know they’ll have mass resignations if the make people stop WFH.

we make it work really well, but that’s because when we come into the office it is always with a purpose. So whole team-once a fortnight with a full agenda and lunch. The rest of the time people can go in if they want - but the only mandatory day is the once a fortnight- which we do cancel from time to time if it isn’t needed.

basically for me it’s really important that If you enjoy WFH that when you go into the office it feels worthwhile and not like box ticking. But the office is always open for those who want it.

This sounds awful and I wouldn’t do it. We have 6 month probations, I’m not going in every day for 6 months when we work entirely effectively from home. My new direct report also couldn’t do it, his salary and working arrangement are around 1 day in the office, he couldn’t afford to come in 4 days a week

@Beachmummy23

please come back!!

It sounds like bad management. I agreed a day a week with my team when we are all in the office and we stick to it. Other teams work on one day every fortnight schedule, or whatever works for them.

The company provides free lunch three days a week, and these days tend to be the busiest in the office, so if you want to see people from other teams you just turn up, no need to coordinate presence.

It helps that upper management tend to be in a lot (my direct manager has a 2 hour commute each way and is in at least 3 days a week) so they lead by example.

Sure, there are people who whine and refuse to come into the office at all, but not that many. Two things are happening, management are starting to enforce occasional presence and these people realise they are slowly missing out and falling behind.

That does sound dreadful. I can only assume you're a small team with not much recruitment. I'd be really resentful if I had to do that.

We have 3 days in the office as mandatory
A few people left as they wanted full time WFH and thought they could do that and look after children at the same time
we could have picked out who they would be,and they are no loss

Most teams have a rota so everyone is in at least 2 days a week.
My team is encouraged to come in at least once a week, as unlike most other teams we don’t send out printed documents.
Senior management are generally in 2 days a week.
I haven’t heard any grumbling.

😄 split across two cities, lots of acronyms…?

It’s miserable to see how many others are also in a ‘hybrid’ situation they don’t like, but I am really encouraged to see lots of people saying their organisations have managed it well. There clearly is a way to do it! But the trick does seem to be management being less woolly and vague about it, so maybe not on the immediate horizon for mine, sigh.

We all come in one day a week on a Wednesday. You can go in additional days of you want to, but only Wednesday is a rule. It works well, I like it.

Are there places which are making this work? (And by ‘making this work’ I do not mean ‘the office is open for people who want it i suppose but I personally don’t leave my house’, we already have that, I mean a proper mix of in-person and at-home.) Or is hybrid just inevitably shit?

Yes most make it work well from those I've seen in our client base. Took a while to build the right rhythm but generally successful, saves money, aids recruitment.

Your company has just botched it. It takes thought and planning and good comms, just like any other business change. It also suggests your layers of middle and senior management need pruning.

Slightly curious - I've seen a plethora of "hybrid working is shit" type posts across different forums lately from new users. Why did you feel the need to name change for this?

Been hybrid working since 2002, there are sensible ways to make it work. Define days of week when everyone is expected to be in. Schedule exclusively in person meetings unless someone has genuine access/health need. Welcome days and events for new joiners. It’s very selfish of senior leaders not to be conscious that part of what they get paid for us to be a good citizen and welcome and support eve joiners and development others. The recession that is about to hit will show that those who make time to think of others will be kept and those who say ‘ I’m worming start home forever’ will be invited to do so on the dole or self employed.
if you want to work at home forever and have no one ever dictate your location or hours you need to work for yourself. They’ll find that out soon!

( I’ve worked for myself for ten years for exactly this reason and was based from home for the years before that- based from home doesn’t mean you never leave it by the way… but they haven’t understood that yet)

We have struggled with this. Wanting people back in the office.
In reality there is no choice for us. We tried. Half the staff left, leaving for companies where they could work full time from home.
Recruitment is really difficult as they expect to wfh.
Salaries shot through the roof because bigger city based companies pinch all the available workers working from home.
We are a regional company having to compete nationally for salaries but our clients don't/won't pay more.
Shit show really!
So staff do what they want. We have to let them because if we don't they leave.
The buzz has completely gone and it's very tough out there

Honestly depends on the type of work you do. The challenges I've found are

• not everyone has a dedicated office space particularly entry level colleagues who often house share so makes it tougher for the lower paid

-hybrid meetings are truly awful. IT isn't set up to support it so often feels pointless and disjointed

• being a new member of staff is really difficult in terms of on the job learning, networking and profile

• lugging a laptop and all the bits to the office and back is a pain.

• some colleagues have really lost their professionalism. Taking long breaks not being available, dressed in PJs for meetings, sometimes kids running around in the background. Attending teams meetings with cameras off clearly checking out.

I've proposed we up our required office time to 60% (3days) on set days that are non negotiable other than medical appointments.

Our public sector workplace has almost double the amount of people the site was built for, so a lot of people were in the habit of WFH 1-2 days each week pre pandemic anyway because there weren't enough desks, or parking, or toilets.

I live close to work so walk in, and went in every day except for the few months we were all totally locked down. There were generally 2-4 of us in our room all through the last couple of years and it was lovely. I can't bear noise, so to have someone there to chat to but the freedom to concentrate without listening to other people was my ideal.

They took advantage of lower numbers to relocate 4-5 teams in our room and tbh it's been hell. Each team tends to all come in together on random days, so you never know who is going to be in. Being in every day, I get to listen to all the "catch-up" chats Every.Single.Day. from different teams. My own team hardly ever come in, so I'm sitting with people I don't really know and don't need to work with all the time. My manager can only come in 1 day a week at a push because she can't leave her lockdown dog...

People come in to have 8 hours of back to back Skype/Teams meetings, which if I'm really lucky I get to hear both sides of, thanks to the crappy headphones we get. After much complaining, that does seem to be dying off a bit. Now it's just endless personal chats. There are 2 particular teams that manage to spend 8 hours nattering about how little their husbands do, what their children are up to, and Love Island, without pausing for breath. Management say they can't do anything about it and helpfully suggest I wear headphones all day or WFH 😡If I was managing that team I'd be checking their outputs for their days in office because I can't see how they can be doing any work at all.

Directive from the top is that people should choose the most appropriate place to work (but when I asked to work in an area that has been totally empty for the last 2 years I was told it belonged to another team so I can't), but with a strong push to WFH most of the time. It feels like our contracts have been unilaterally changed without any consultation. I never agreed to make my home a workplace. As others have said, you see the bespoke home offices of the Senior staff while you are sitting at your dining table in your kitchen hissing at your DH to be quiet as he's trying to use his home for the purpose for which it was intended. It really has magnified the gap between the haves and have nots.

Why did you feel the need to name change for this?

Because I’m a paid shill for the Tories/Big Commercial Landlord/Prêt and want everyone back in the office, ofc.

(actually it’s because I want to bitch about my colleagues with less recognisability.)

This subject fascinates me. Definitely relate to what you are saying. Some of the junior staff at our place have to come in to provide a service whilst the seniors might not. Everyone just does what they like pretty much. We have become used to that (people will drop out of coming in at a drop of a hat where previously you had to make arrangements for personal situations) and it's being selfish ultimately (I count myself in this, we all do it). We want to be able to come to work on a day that suits us AND find everybody else there, total paradox.

I think it's still too early to assess the effect of all this and in ten years' time there will be management textbooks and courses with tried and tested ideas. At present the best we've got is experimenting and seeing what happens. It's like a new industrial revolution and everything we knew before is gone. What is disappointing is some people seem to think we are waiting 'for things to go back to normal' and therefore not seizing things properly, while all the while staff make personal decisions based on the now.

Before you usually had a policy and staff were treated more or less equally or had formal flexible working arrangements. Now you see some staff 'getting away' with things, eg moving to another part of the country. And some jobs are more suited to being done remotely than others, so is it even possible now to insist the same of all employees? That can build resentment however if not handled appropriately.

Whilst I agree coming into the office can be distracting, I strongly suspect wfh creates more work in itself and is why we hear people worked longer hours during the pandemic. Instead of being able to grab a colleague or ask someone to do something, you have to write down the task on your list, add a task to email the person, write the email (always longer than speaking) and then wait. You may have no sense of what happened next. Or you set up a meeting and there can be lots of time wasted doing that as everyone's elaborate schedule needs a accommodating.

If you have bad managers the situation is compounded as they do not recognise what is happening, the way staff can feel abandoned, demotivated, disconnected. It's partly why the job market is so buoyant, people are no longer prepared to put up with work that doesn't motivate them (where before that might have been offset by a good team). I've found it takes much longer to build rapport with new colleagues or for them to work out the politics of the place. Training new staff is harder too.

We can't go backwards and everyone benefits in some way but I think we are being slow to acknowledge the costs too. I was hopeful it would mean more equality for women but most of what I've read on that so actually suggests the opposite.

Where I work senior management are required to be in more than anyone and also think they should be.

We also have team days in the office. I manage four teams and have a different team day each week for each team so I am in at least four days. That is a hangover from when we couldn't all be in together, but it is also quite nice for those who want to be in more because then you are near a team who is in. Occasionally I will ask all of them to be in together if we have a celebration.

I have some real concerns about the wfh "trend". Definately necessary during the pandemic but now? too many people seem to think that they can combine wfh with small child care. is that really working full time or part time? with the huge rises in energy prices people are in effect paying out for the heating, lighting and energy in their own homes out of their wages. whilst it might have been less than the cost of commuting in the past will it continue to be? the railways are 30% down on customers, the high street is dying as no one is buying lunch/shopping in their lunch hours. when the cost of living and recession really bite will more people want to come back to the office and then find the kind of things that they had in the past - local sandwich makers etc have all gone? However in all of this my biggest fear is around people who join the organisation from school/uni. its incredibly hard for them if they dont have that friendly office enviroment where you can just nip over to talk to someone if you need help etc. I really dont want my children ( who are now all in their late teens and 20's with some working and some still at uni) in this environment, I really dont.

Sounds like no actual policy is in place and that’s why it’s a mess - my works policy is everyone can do 2 days wfh a week but they have to be fixed. Always means there’s about 60% if not more people in the office on any 1 day. Also over time more and more people have increased their office days and decreased they wfh but it’s there for the added flexibility if they want it which is a nice balance. It’s working really well and been in place months now