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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Hitler argument

131 replies

Birchtree1 · 12/08/2022 19:12

Just had a massive argument with my husband.
He thinks our son is a leader....( I think he has adhd) he has been pointing it out for a while. He has just mentioned it again and said he is a leader and Hitler was a leader too. Now. ...I lost my shit Hitler killed millions of people and was an ego maniac amd narcissistic asshole. ( in my opinion) apparently I am not normal with this opinion and he doesn't want to talk to me and whatever happened he was still a leader!? I just spoke to my children re our German heritage and the Jews and gypsies and lots of other minorities which I didn't want to do just yet as they are 5 and 8 years old. My husband is refusing to talk to me as I really lost my shit.
He could have mentioned Churchill or whoever ...but mentioning Hitler as an example of leadership? Apparently it is being taught at schools in this county!?!!?

OP posts:
Original poster
Birchtree1 · 12/08/2022 19:31

Thank you for your replies! For me hitler was a despot and not right in the head. Nobody on Germany would mention him as a leader. Maybe as a bad example of how you can make people believe wrong things. I am so angry I want to explode. But he doesn’t want to talk things out and doesn’t understand how awful I find this statement. It’s just the worst! ( for me and most other German people) and yes….maybe he just tried to irritate me….don’t know

OP posts:
Revolvingwhore · 12/08/2022 19:33

DrDetriment · 12/08/2022 19:31

YABU. Hitler was a very powerful leader, abhorrent in his methods, but voted in and supported by millions of people. And I say that as someone who speaks German and has a German partner.

Never voted in though. A political appointment.

JustTheOneSwan · 12/08/2022 19:33

I thought Hitler only got about a third of the vote, many in protest and then changed to rules to get full control?
not the point of the thread but he wasn't that good, Ghengis however....

IcedPurple · 12/08/2022 19:34

pinkstripeycat · 12/08/2022 19:26

He was a dictator. That’s different to a leader

Why?

He had huge public support until it became obvious that Germany would lose the war.

BowiesJumper · 12/08/2022 19:35

I can assure you that it is not taught here that hitler, his deeds or methods are aspirational or examples of good leadership. He is this countries greatest historical enemy! It is taught that he happened to come to power in a time of great hardship in Germany and took advantage of that, and that he was very persuasive and a good speaker. And also that heinous things were done under his orders and in his name. The holocaust is taught in our schools.

it is never appropriate to compare a child to him in any way, favourable or not (favourable is worse as it is so distasteful!). It makes me feel quite ill to be honest!

Original poster
Birchtree1 · 12/08/2022 19:36

Oh my goodness….but comparing and 8 year old to these people? And 8 year old who has problems.maybe I need to wobble my head but I completely lost my shit. Shouldn’t have….I know….in German history lessons hitler doesn’t feature as a leader. More as a manipulator and despot and not quite right in the head…..

OP posts:
Windbeneathmybingowings · 12/08/2022 19:36

Our history teacher did used to speak of his skills at emotive talking and ability to change peoples views and get them on side with his non factual points. But this was in discussion and not being “taught” to us. As well as that it was very much in the negative ie this is how a cult leader works, not a legitimate politician.

Lipsandlashes · 12/08/2022 19:40

Windbeneathmybingowings · 12/08/2022 19:36

Our history teacher did used to speak of his skills at emotive talking and ability to change peoples views and get them on side with his non factual points. But this was in discussion and not being “taught” to us. As well as that it was very much in the negative ie this is how a cult leader works, not a legitimate politician.

Exactly. It is part of deeper critical thinking, required for History A Level. You aren’t told that he is an admirable leader though.

BeanieTeen · 12/08/2022 19:41

Why is everyone trying to give the German OP a lesson in the German language and German history?
Hitler being a leader is beside the point. That’s not the issue. It’s really not appropriate for anyone to compare a child to Hitler, it’s just weird.
A child might be a budding little artist, or actor or musician and you don’t say ‘you’re an artist and so was Rolf Harris…’

CharlotteRose90 · 12/08/2022 19:42

Hitler was a leader. And that shouldn’t be forgotten nor should any of disgusting things he did. It’s a lesson to never be forgotten. In the Uk In my history lessons he was mentioned once and then never again. Whereas in my families country in Eastern Europe he’s mentioned all the time.

Iamnotthe1 · 12/08/2022 19:43

For me hitler was a despot and not right in the head. Nobody on Germany would mention him as a leader. Maybe as a bad example of how you can make people believe wrong things.

But this is kind of the point. Hitler was truly horrific but he was a highly effective leader which is precisely why he was able to so successfully manipulate the German people little by little by little. It's actually important to study things like this so that as a society, we can prevent the potential rise of other populist leaders that could lead us down these paths.

It wouldn't be taught at your children's age but, yes, examining different perspectives, understanding and analysising bias and searching for objective truths are all encouraged within History as children get older. Discussion questions like the one posted upthread are not uncommon.

Churchill would not have been a 'good' example either though if you were looking in terms of morality. There are aspects of what he believed that were awful too, such as his support for eugenics.

But, yes, given the ages of your children and you own background, your husband was being a dick.

Lipsandlashes · 12/08/2022 19:45

CharlotteRose90 · 12/08/2022 19:42

Hitler was a leader. And that shouldn’t be forgotten nor should any of disgusting things he did. It’s a lesson to never be forgotten. In the Uk In my history lessons he was mentioned once and then never again. Whereas in my families country in Eastern Europe he’s mentioned all the time.

I can only assume you didn’t take history for GCSE or A Level then

cakeorwine · 12/08/2022 19:46

Churchill would not have been a 'good' example either though if you were looking in terms of morality. There are aspects of what he believed that were awful too, such as his support for eugenics

Careful. Questioning Churchill is not allowed in this country.

StoneofDestiny · 12/08/2022 19:46

Leader meaning the person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country.
He was an autocratic leader, like Putin. (He was a dictator, mass murderer and led by terror)

ijustcouldntthinkofausername · 12/08/2022 19:48

Erm.. he was probably just joking ?

Iamnotthe1 · 12/08/2022 19:49

cakeorwine · 12/08/2022 19:46

Churchill would not have been a 'good' example either though if you were looking in terms of morality. There are aspects of what he believed that were awful too, such as his support for eugenics

Careful. Questioning Churchill is not allowed in this country.

Sorry, I'll say my 30 "Rule Britannia"s as penance.

Original poster
Birchtree1 · 12/08/2022 19:51

BeanieTeen · 12/08/2022 19:41

Why is everyone trying to give the German OP a lesson in the German language and German history?
Hitler being a leader is beside the point. That’s not the issue. It’s really not appropriate for anyone to compare a child to Hitler, it’s just weird.
A child might be a budding little artist, or actor or musician and you don’t say ‘you’re an artist and so was Rolf Harris…’

Thank you.... that's kind of the point that I am trying to make despite being deeply offended as a German having lived here for almost 20 years and having tried to make up amends and having read dozens of books about it to fully understand what happened back then.

OP posts:
Wonnle · 12/08/2022 19:52

Windbeneathmybingowings · 12/08/2022 19:36

Our history teacher did used to speak of his skills at emotive talking and ability to change peoples views and get them on side with his non factual points. But this was in discussion and not being “taught” to us. As well as that it was very much in the negative ie this is how a cult leader works, not a legitimate politician.

Sounds like a certain Trump bloke as well

Original poster
Birchtree1 · 12/08/2022 19:53

ijustcouldntthinkofausername · 12/08/2022 19:48

Erm.. he was probably just joking ?

He wasn't

OP posts:
StoneofDestiny · 12/08/2022 19:53

It seems some people are interpreting 'leader' as something good. However, there are many types of leadership - many that nobody could describe as 'good'.

StoneofDestiny · 12/08/2022 19:54

Careful. Questioning Churchill is not allowed in this country

more people should!.

Maireas · 12/08/2022 19:54

As pp have said, this is nothing to do with Hitler, Churchill, the school syllabus or anything else. It's about the OP's husband and his offensive behaviour.
Look, you were trying to leave him last December, why are you still with him? Do you need help?

PollyRockets · 12/08/2022 19:56

This post is strange

Firstly what do you mean it's taught in schools?

Of course Hitler is taught in school and yes, the fact he was the leader of Germany is also mentioned.

You not liking it doesn't stop it being a fact

Your DH is unreasonable however to use Hitler as the go to comparison for your child. Unless he meant it as he is a leader in the sense of not being a very good one.

Original poster
Birchtree1 · 12/08/2022 19:58

Maireas · 12/08/2022 19:54

As pp have said, this is nothing to do with Hitler, Churchill, the school syllabus or anything else. It's about the OP's husband and his offensive behaviour.
Look, you were trying to leave him last December, why are you still with him? Do you need help?

Thank you. You have obviously done your research. I just wanted to know whether I am mad or not.

OP posts:
Maireas · 12/08/2022 20:00

You're most definitely not mad, @Birchtree. I think from what you've said he's gaslighting you.
I don't know where you live, but there will be Women's Aid and various support groups. This has nothing to do with Nazi Germany and everything to do with his cruelty and abuse.