To think women are more toxic than people would like to admit?

[MarthaMayver]

I'd like to start by saying by no means are all women toxic, I'm a female myself and have always been a huge supporter of feminism and "sisterhood" if you will. However the more behaviour I witness from women, I'm starting to stray away from seeing them as allies.

I have worked in female dominated sectors my entire life and have constantly had to witness cliques, gossiping, power plays, passive aggressiveness, and downright bullying. I had to leave my last job as it was affecting my mental health so badly.

I always thought this was just part and parcel of working in groups. However I started a new job last year, with an equal spread of male and female colleagues and there has been none of this. I'm now wondering if the problem with all of my previous workplaces was the fact that they were female dominated.

To me, it's very obvious in person how women favour men over their own gender, regardless of how much "female empowerment" and "Women Supporting Women" is preached these days. For example, they will let men get away with mistakes they wouldn't let other women get away with. Male incompetence is often seen as "cute", whereas the same behaviour coming from a woman would be laughed or sneered at.

There are so many stories coming out in recent years of mothers favouring their sons over their daughters, and at worst bullying and abusing their daughters whilst worshiping their sons. I now think back to my own childhood and I can remember many occasions where my mother would put me down for something, while supporting my male siblings for doing the same thing. There were also a lot of sly, underhand insults that I didn't realize at the time, that were never directed towards my brothers.

I'm prepared to be told IBU, but I'm also very interested in knowing how many people agree, or if anyone has any similar experiences.

Priti Patel bullied and aide into a suicide attempt. It happens. It’s just not often considered news worthy or study worthy because of people like you who think only violent crimes, the worst of the worst, done by men to helpless women is newsworthy or study worthy.

The closest you’ll get are studies of mothers who kill their children. No one’s interested in women being bullied into suicide by other women. This thread is evidence of that after all it’s been belittled as “a distraction from what’s really doing us harm” FFS.

How do you know it’s a widespread problem in society then?

Do you have any evidence it isn’t? Please show me the proof that toxic women in the workplace are entirely harmless despite the many voices of women speaking up and saying it’s not harmless, it causes serious problems, and it is widespread.

Because i listen to women and their lived experiences. Don’t you?

But I don’t have to provide evidence that something isnt happening, how could I? If you can’t provide evidence that it is happening, how do you propose society deals with it?

@Pumperthepumper I expect it isn't something that has been studied, though? Why do you have an issue with women examining their relationships with women, out of interest?

Not at all true. Unless you're talking about Cordelia Fine who is usually referenced on here. Even if we disregard that she writes from an arguably biased 'feminist' angle, the fact remains that she is a psychologist rather than a neurologist/endocrinologist and has been criticised by peers for being somewhat selective with her data.

I'll try and dig up the links from the last testosterone thread on here.

They do as far as I’m concerned. All I can do is live my life and make my own contribution to the world.

Why wouldn’t it have been studied though? If it’s such a widespread problem ie it’s having huge effects in society, why hasn’t anyone looked into it? Why haven’t you?

So say, Marcus Rashford started from the same position of equality as say, Boris Johnson?

This is the most comical defensive sophistry and dissembling. You are clearly in some way rattled or vexed by the concepts being discussed here.

Which concepts?

They are entirely equal in my eyes.

In what way?

Are you trying to waste my time?

They are human beings of equivalent intrinsic value and worth in the world.

Yanbu, I was suffering an awful bereavement and terrible time in the autumn / winter that nobody at my work knew about and I was very very very thin as a result. Heard from a genuinely concerned former colleague last week that a very senior, female staff member had told her along with a group of others I was off sick with anorexia. I was actually off sick for the first time in the decade as I was having a nervous breakdown. I wasn't eating, sleeping every minute of daylight hours, crying and broken and it has really, really upset me as I'm still so embarrassed about that time and lost all of my confidence, and from this particular person the comment was definitely downright nastiness, not concern. I honestly had convinced myself nobody had realised how downhill I had gone back then and she's sort of confirmed they not only did but a discussion about how skeletal I looked must have happened when I wasn't there. I was skinny before anyway and she would always make digs or notice what I was ordering in restaraunts etc. and verbalise it for other people to notice. I wouldn't wish what I was going through back then on anybody at all and I deliberately kept it private to avoid any attention or pity coming my way. It isn't the first comment I've had like it either, other women who had no idea thought it was their place to express concern. One even told me 'you'll never get pregnant unless you start eating proper meals'. I'm a half of her age and our conversation was so far from the topic we were discussing, it was as thought she had to blurt it out...I have had absolutely no comments like it from any males I work with, they've all been really kind to me. It's sad :(

No, which concepts do you want to discuss? It’s not the widespread effects on society, because you can’t name any. Is it sharing stories of toxic women?

@Pumperthepumper I have not been offered funding, though it could make an interesting project. I don't think anyone has claimed it's a huge issue in society, anyway. It's just women talking about their experiences with other women. So, I wonder why you seem against that discussion.

Did they start from equal financial positions? Did they face the same amount of adversity?

Pumper, I'm starting to think you're one of the toxic female bullies we're talking about.

The themes of the discussion are quite clear.

I’m not sure what gave you the idea I was against it. People are complaining that they’re not being given the chance to have a discussion about it, so that’s what I’m doing.

Nope!

Why? What makes you think I’m a woman?