To think women are more toxic than people would like to admit?

[MarthaMayver]

I'd like to start by saying by no means are all women toxic, I'm a female myself and have always been a huge supporter of feminism and "sisterhood" if you will. However the more behaviour I witness from women, I'm starting to stray away from seeing them as allies.

I have worked in female dominated sectors my entire life and have constantly had to witness cliques, gossiping, power plays, passive aggressiveness, and downright bullying. I had to leave my last job as it was affecting my mental health so badly.

I always thought this was just part and parcel of working in groups. However I started a new job last year, with an equal spread of male and female colleagues and there has been none of this. I'm now wondering if the problem with all of my previous workplaces was the fact that they were female dominated.

To me, it's very obvious in person how women favour men over their own gender, regardless of how much "female empowerment" and "Women Supporting Women" is preached these days. For example, they will let men get away with mistakes they wouldn't let other women get away with. Male incompetence is often seen as "cute", whereas the same behaviour coming from a woman would be laughed or sneered at.

There are so many stories coming out in recent years of mothers favouring their sons over their daughters, and at worst bullying and abusing their daughters whilst worshiping their sons. I now think back to my own childhood and I can remember many occasions where my mother would put me down for something, while supporting my male siblings for doing the same thing. There were also a lot of sly, underhand insults that I didn't realize at the time, that were never directed towards my brothers.

I'm prepared to be told IBU, but I'm also very interested in knowing how many people agree, or if anyone has any similar experiences.

Did you just compare me to a holocaust denier because you can’t find proof that men are not biologically violent? You need to calm down.

One thing I do know is that hormone cancer treatment for prostate cancer designed to reduce testosterone has side effects in men which can include hot flushes, anxiety, problems with memory and concentration, a greatly increased tendency to tearfulness and sudden mood swings, osteoporosis, loss in muscle mass, reduced libido, increased oestrogen, swollen breast tissue, reduced penis size, weight gain, reduced body hair, fatigue.

Signs of excess testosterone in men can include increased aggression or risk taking behaviours (ie more than characteristic for that person), acne, excessive body hair, increased sex drive, increased appetite, infertility, swollen limbs, unexplained weight gain, insomnia, high blood pressure, enlarged prostate, etc.

Excess testosterone in women apparently shows the same small, positive relationship with aggression.

Cortisol (the stress hormone) has an effect other hormones, though - high cortisol levels can actually reduce aggression and increase submissive behaviours. High cortisol can reduce testosterone levels - a sign of chronic stress. High cortisol levels can also lower oestrogen.

Hormones clearly therefore have a colossal effect on emotions and thus thinking and behaviour, and health, one way or another, but different hormones interact with each other, so you can’t look at one hormone in isolation and draw definitive conclusions, as nobody only has one hormone coursing through their body. Anyone claiming testosterone has no role whatsoever in aggression and the way it is expressed is, I think, denying reality, but it is clearly not as simple a link as testosterone on its own making you aggressive. Testosterone combined with other physiological and societal factors can maybe increase tendency towards aggression, and certainly increases the ability to demonstrate aggression in more physical ways, as it does increase muscle mass. As with pretty much everything, it’s a combination of nature and nurture.

I’m not saying it doesn’t have a role, I’m saying nobody has proved it. I’m also not denying that hormones have effects on human emotions, I’m saying that there’s no proof that testosterone specially causes aggression specifically.

This whole conversation came about because someone took offence to me calling it ‘testosterone theory’ (which it is), because everyone assumes it’s a proven thing.

Yes.
my sister in law is so toxic, lazy, a gaslighter, walks all over my brother, verbally abuses him then acts like a saint to other family members

there’s so many things she has done which all fall into the category of emotional abuse at the very least.

i never understood how he can’t see that she’s lazy despite being at home more, demands lifts everywhere, family members clean her house or take the kids to nursery, makes choices who he can see, what he can do and then pulls the mum/mental health card if you criticise her - (anxiety isn’t an excuse for abuse)

unfortunately she’s not the first and last woman I’ve met like this who just seem to think that a woman can’t be overworked/ever wrong as that’s misogynist and unfair but it’s okay for the man to do absolutely everything

it works both ways obviously you get lazy/awful men and no one deserves to be on the receiving end, kids most importantly need to see healthy relationships to flourish. but I think In this case there’s a fine line between “I’ll ask the mrs” and a woman that’s controlling every aspect of your life.

i hope this doesn’t come across as jealous or spiteful, I’ve just remembering noticing a lot of toxicity in their relationship a lot of taking from her and no real contribution.

i miss them incredibly, unfortunately I did end up moving abroad for work but I know the only way we will see them is if I grovel on her terms (i tried before but I didn’t talk about her feelings enough) and I’m not willing to take part in that game and watch my brother turn into a shadow of the person he once was. It does get to me though.

I would have to say over the years I have worked with an equal amount of bitchy men as I have bitchy women .In fact one manager i had was a bully .I know have a husband and wife boss and they are amazing and the team I work with are all women of varying ages .We are not a big team but I can say hand on heart we look after each other , never any bitching or falling out .

Women in groups are toxic af.

No, they aren't

The worst people I've worked with and for are women. Men in my career have always helped me mentored me and had my back.

Yep working in an all woman team was awful

I used to work in a female dominated sector. (Back in the elder days) When I was in my early twenties I was very slim and by most standards very beautiful. I am also from a fairly wealthy family and pretty intelligent as well as excellently educated. What's not to hate, right? I was viciously bullied by other women. Slim? She must be anorexic. Lovely long hair? Surely extensions. The breasts? Must be surgery. With looks like that she must be stupid. Money? She must have a sugar daddy. I left multiple professional positions because of other women. The single reason I left nursing was other women. It took quite a toll on my mental health. Fast forward a couple of decades I am a mother of daughters. I am very aware of this issue and I am certainly preparing my daughters as much for the bitchiness they can expect from they supposed "sisters" as the potential predatorial behaviour from men. Avoid at all cost! Never had the same problem with blokes.

What is your point?

The human race has many assholes in its ranks...of course some of them will be women.

But if you are comparing the widespread toxicity of patriarchy (rape, sexual assault, domestic violence, objectification, discrimination) to the harm that some individual woman can cause and suggest both are equally toxic then I suggest you give your head a wobble.

I think there is just as much objectification and discrimination from women. Obviously less physical assault because women are commonly more subtle. Arguably, you can suffer as much from mental assault as from physical. No one sees the harm done to you and you are made to believe it is all in your head. My point is that this whole "sisterhood" triffle is a blatant lie. There are arseholes in all demographics, I just think that women bring out the worst in women fpr some reason unbeknown to me.

I think we really have to look at how we raise young people. I don't think mums favour sons. Look at all the gender disappointment threads. It's always about not having a girl to dress in pink. I see my friends who have boys and girls, promoting stereotypes. "She is a girl so can't do certain activities" or "he is a boy so behaviours are excused' no wonder girls go around acting like spoilt princesses who stamp their feet when they don't get their own way - even as grown women. And boys act like idiot who lack respect and boundaries. This itranslates to the workplace.

I agree with the post. Most women do not support each other in the work environment. It's very sad.

I absolutely agree. Something needs to change on a societal level though.

I have a son and me and DH are very aware of sex based stereotypes due to the work we do so we know that at home we don't enforce the ideas around typical boy/girl behaviour and we're very clear that boys and girls can do the same hobbies, study the same subjects and enter the same careers.
However, he still comes out with comments about boy/girl hobbies and boy/girl jobs. He's learning this from wider society which will also start the teach him about boy/girl behaviour.

We challenge these stereotypes at home but it means you're battling against society at large - which can be hard!

Or even in the home environment, the amount of acrimony with MILs and SILs as well as mothers and daughters is never ending although it’s mental stress rather than physical harm.

I don’t have that experience at all.

My perspective on this long thread, based on my experience, is that the women who complain other women are bitchy and competitive tend to be bitchy and competitive themselves.

I’ve always had amazing female friends and work colleagues I find women very supportive of each other.

I don’t know anyone who favours their sons or have a bad relationship with their MIL.

I couldn't agree more! 100% everything you said. I'm a teacher (Primary), a job almost entirely female dominated and I find it makes for an unhealthy working environment and culture. I've been teaching over 14 years (I'm 44), worked in various schools and in schools where there were men on the staff, I have to admit the atmosphere was generally sooooo much better....less drama, emotional stuff, less competition and more fun and banter.

I've come to the conclusion that having just one gender in a workplace creates an imbalance and can lead (potentially) to a toxic workplace. It also makes for a less interesting, unequal workplace and a lack of role models

I'm currently job hunting as I dread the thought of coming back to my current workplace where I've only been two years. With any luck, I'll find a more gender-balanced, fun and enjoyable workplace next year!

I've worked with great women and great men, horrible women and horrible men, it's not about gender, it's about personalities. The word is not that black and white.

Toxic much? This whole site is full of entertainment 😂😂😂

I find that weight is a massive trigger for women . If a woman is tall slim and attractive then she's a target for other women's insecurities and jealousy. I worked with one charmer who was going to leave her boyfriend and go back to her home city but before she went she was going to have a go at her boyfriends sister who she hated because she was so slim .

I had one bitch from a workplace constantly commenting on my weight and was watching what I ate.

Ten years after I left the company I get a phone call out of the blue from her asking me if I was still slim as she had heard from someone that I had put on a lot of weight and she was now slim and how she wowed Everyone at a workplace reunion where she wore a miniskirt. I just laughed 😂 at her and put the phone down .

I attract weird women 😂

Not saying this is never true but equally there can be Energy of "you"re a bit too plump/frumpy/old to really reflect well on us, so ....thank but no thank you keep your distance [swish of hair]

It can go both ways. And i have experienced and witnessed micro exclusions to exclude me and also sensed i was a shoe in for inclusion. If I ever have any power I use it for good.

And the B1tch can be thin, fat, old, young, pink, a homeschooling mom of 5 or a beautiful woman or an ugly woman. Who knows.

There is difference between men and women's relationships - I think women discuss/ are interested in / enjoy talking to other people. I think men are more into things than people.
Hence few women do lonely eg driving jobs, lone painter or plumber whereas men seem able to do these jobs fine. (wouldn't appeal to me). Women do nursing, teaching, hairdressing, there are fewer female gardeners, farmers.
Generalising greatly.
And if your relationship is about talking it is usually talking about people, yourself or others. Men can bumble along with a hobby in common such as football, gaming and don't need to know who the partner is, kids ages etc Whereas women, if they are to form a good friendship, need to know about the life of the other person. This means you can't be as friendly to all in the workplace - you can't know all about everyone. And discussing others around you can cause problems. Men don't want to know about your family etc so a light hearted relationship forms.