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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think women are more toxic than people would like to admit?

505 replies

MarthaMayver · 10/08/2022 20:49

I'd like to start by saying by no means are all women toxic, I'm a female myself and have always been a huge supporter of feminism and "sisterhood" if you will. However the more behaviour I witness from women, I'm starting to stray away from seeing them as allies.

I have worked in female dominated sectors my entire life and have constantly had to witness cliques, gossiping, power plays, passive aggressiveness, and downright bullying. I had to leave my last job as it was affecting my mental health so badly.

I always thought this was just part and parcel of working in groups. However I started a new job last year, with an equal spread of male and female colleagues and there has been none of this. I'm now wondering if the problem with all of my previous workplaces was the fact that they were female dominated.

To me, it's very obvious in person how women favour men over their own gender, regardless of how much "female empowerment" and "Women Supporting Women" is preached these days. For example, they will let men get away with mistakes they wouldn't let other women get away with. Male incompetence is often seen as "cute", whereas the same behaviour coming from a woman would be laughed or sneered at.

There are so many stories coming out in recent years of mothers favouring their sons over their daughters, and at worst bullying and abusing their daughters whilst worshiping their sons. I now think back to my own childhood and I can remember many occasions where my mother would put me down for something, while supporting my male siblings for doing the same thing. There were also a lot of sly, underhand insults that I didn't realize at the time, that were never directed towards my brothers.

I'm prepared to be told IBU, but I'm also very interested in knowing how many people agree, or if anyone has any similar experiences.

OP posts:
WaffleIron · 10/08/2022 22:30

Love Mumsnet sometimes

When a man is nasty: God, all men are horrible, awful people. They hate women.

When a woman is nasty: I think you'll find it's 'people' that are nasty, not women.

Hbh17 · 10/08/2022 22:33

The most unpleasant and over-dramatic office I ever worked in had an all female staff. I would never want to join any kind of all female social group. And this is sad, because I want to stand up for women and see them do well but - sometimes - the levels of sentimentality, trivia and fuss just seem to be too much.

StarDolphins · 10/08/2022 22:34

I just think generally there’s a lot more unpleasant people around these days, men & women. The ‘salt of the earth’ characters are disappearing, being replaced by quite a few, vacuous, bitchy, bullying people.with no morals.

YesJess · 10/08/2022 22:35

CrossStichQueen · 10/08/2022 22:09

Men kill women at 2 plus per week in the UK.

For all those who say women are as bad as men have a fucking word.
Yes women can be mean and bitchy but really women are NOT as toxic as men.
Christ the men who are employed to help us murder us!

Yeah, but only a fraction of a percent of men murder whilst there are loads of horrid bitchy women. I've met loads of the latter and none of the former.

Also met a fair few male assholes, but the point I'm getting at is that the sisterhood is largely a myth. Men are actually much better than us at sticking together and studies show that they collaborate better. In fact, men and women supposedly collaborate better than women alone according to last study I read.

Pumperthepumper · 10/08/2022 22:35

WaffleIron · 10/08/2022 22:30

Love Mumsnet sometimes

When a man is nasty: God, all men are horrible, awful people. They hate women.

When a woman is nasty: I think you'll find it's 'people' that are nasty, not women.

No, I think it’s more that being a feminist - ie supporting fair and equal treatment for women - doesn’t mean that all women are saints. You can also talk about the dangers that men do without thinking every woman is an angel.

CrossStichQueen · 10/08/2022 22:36

Waffle
Think more critical.

Women maybe nasty and bitchy but rarely does that end in the death of another person.

Wome are told constantly to get anywhere in the world they should be more like men then when the are assertive they are called toxic.....see a pattern?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 10/08/2022 22:36

Some women are toxic

some men are toxic

Maybe ive been lucky in my mainly female based jobs and had generally lovely colleagues and management

gnilliwdog · 10/08/2022 22:37

My female friends who are raising girls also say that there is a tendency among girls to exclude and isolate when they fall out. In my experience raising boys, they don't seem to do that. They may decide they don't like someone but it doesn't seem to occupy their mind very long and they won't be interested in turning others against the boy they have argued with.

mommynette · 10/08/2022 22:37

@MarthaMayver (OP)
In my astrology I have libra in my 12th house which means few females are secret enemies so I gotta beware of the b*h hahaha. But all jokes aside, I was bullied at school and back in the day in my former jobs but I got therapy and my therapist helped me. I realised just ignore the bullies, it's hard at first but with a therapist it's simple.

bloomflower · 10/08/2022 22:37

@WaffleIron

you're generalising here. Some people on MN say "all men are bastards". A lot argue the opposite!!

CrossStichQueen · 10/08/2022 22:38

Yeah, but only a fraction of a percent of men murder whilst there are loads of horrid bitchy women. I've met loads of the latter and none of the former.

Yessjess so to you 2 women murdered a week is nothing in comparison to the bitchy women who murder nobody but might upset a few people, yes?

Discovereads · 10/08/2022 22:39

CrossStichQueen · 10/08/2022 22:17

Lovely what aboutery there. We’re talking about toxic workplace environments. Not murder and mayhem.

It's not wataboutery it's fact.

The man who murdered Sara Evard was a police officer who's nickname was the rapist.
You can talk about bitchy women hurting feelings all day its just distraction. Why not look at those who are actually hurting us?

By the way I love how you call 2 women a week murdered as wataboutery.....

Facts can be whataboutery don’t ya know.
And yes, go start a thread about male violence if it suits you. I’d like to talk about what the OP brought up which is toxic female dominated workplaces and the stress that causes.

Its ridiculous that we can’t have a thread talking about toxic femininity in the workplace without someone coming in here and going “oh but men are so much worse so just STFU cause like 2 women die every week” like that gives women carte blanche to be as shitty as they want to be to other women.

That’s like having a thread talking about mothers who kill their children and someone rocking up and saying that’s nothing to worry about when it comes to child abuse, we women are golden because men are worse. Men are 99% of serial killers don’t ya know, so let’s not ever discuss or focus on cleaning up our shit because we are not the worst. What a low fucking bar that is.

Bigchezemakeme · 10/08/2022 22:39

Well done you. Instead of trying to break free of misogynistic structures you’re just perpetuating them. No women are not ‘poisonous’. Grow up and get educated

Pumperthepumper · 10/08/2022 22:39

I have never seen ‘all men are…’ on here, ever. I’ve seen a lot of people claiming it’s all over here though.

Bigchezemakeme · 10/08/2022 22:40

Women maybe nasty and bitchy

i literally cannot believe a woman would write this.

YesJess · 10/08/2022 22:40

I don't understand why anyone would only focus on 'fair and equal treatment' for one sex. It's a bit like saying you only want equality for white people.

That's why I prefer to say I support equality. Egalitarianism is probs the word tbh but saying that immediately signals that you don't support 'feminism' and I can't be arsed to always explain.

Pumperthepumper · 10/08/2022 22:40

@Discovereads what would you like to say about toxic women in offices?

Bigchezemakeme · 10/08/2022 22:41

*Women can be evil.

i know my mouth is horrific and hurtful when I go*

you mean you’re not a very nice person. Work on that rather than assuming that’s all women. It’s not. It’s a you problem

CrossStichQueen · 10/08/2022 22:42

YessJess

You think 2 women murdered a week is nothing compared to bitchy women at work....

Pumperthepumper · 10/08/2022 22:43

YesJess · 10/08/2022 22:40

I don't understand why anyone would only focus on 'fair and equal treatment' for one sex. It's a bit like saying you only want equality for white people.

That's why I prefer to say I support equality. Egalitarianism is probs the word tbh but saying that immediately signals that you don't support 'feminism' and I can't be arsed to always explain.

What do you mean by ‘equality’ though? Feminism isn’t about everyone being treated exactly the same, it’s about fair treatment specifically for women. And there are loads of racial minority groups who want very specific rights for that group. How do you fight for fair and equal treatment for everyone when not everyone starts from the same position of ‘fairness’?

Ilikecheeseontoast · 10/08/2022 22:44

Yes I agree.

Discovereads · 10/08/2022 22:45

Pumperthepumper · 10/08/2022 22:40

@Discovereads what would you like to say about toxic women in offices?

Already did. And was liking the way the discussion was going until being told it doesn’t matter because men hurt women more than women hurt women. It still fucking hurts. Why should we accept women being nasty to women in the workplace because it hurts less than what men do to women? It’s just excusing abusive behaviour. It’s like saying, oh, you are such an imbecile to complain about emotional and verbal abuse because out there somewhere another woman is being murdered or raped. It’s all abuse and even the lower level abuse done by women to women deserves to have a moment in the spotlight without constantly being derailed.

JudgeJ · 10/08/2022 22:45

CatsAreCrackers · 10/08/2022 21:03

I wouldn't say that women necessarily favour men. But having worked most of my early life in male dominated workplaces and then changing to a female dominated environment, I'll just say that I'd rather work with men any day.

That's exactly how I feel, I've taught in single sex school and mixed schools, the best by far was the all boys, the absence of daily drama was refreshing.

Pumperthepumper · 10/08/2022 22:47

Discovereads · 10/08/2022 22:45

Already did. And was liking the way the discussion was going until being told it doesn’t matter because men hurt women more than women hurt women. It still fucking hurts. Why should we accept women being nasty to women in the workplace because it hurts less than what men do to women? It’s just excusing abusive behaviour. It’s like saying, oh, you are such an imbecile to complain about emotional and verbal abuse because out there somewhere another woman is being murdered or raped. It’s all abuse and even the lower level abuse done by women to women deserves to have a moment in the spotlight without constantly being derailed.

Show quote history

But the trouble with that is ‘bitchy women in the workplace’ isn’t a massively widespread problem and tends to be workplace-specific. So if there’s a culture where one women is awful and management won’t do anything, that will perpetuate. And the solution is very workplace-specific. Toxic masculinity is a problem that affects every boy and man, and is something that could be fixed.

CrossStichQueen · 10/08/2022 22:47

Its ridiculous that we can’t have a thread talking about toxic femininity in the workplace without someone coming in here and going “oh but men are so much worse so just STFU cause like 2 women die every week” like that gives women carte blanche to be as shitty as they want to be to other women.

We can talk about toxic work environments they are created by males and females but when it comes to toxic women are the devil I don't take that well.

You are well known for following the MRA stance and after this post I will not engage as I believe you get a kick out of it.