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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel increasingly alienated by Tory voters?

358 replies

BarmyBrunhilde · 10/08/2022 14:11

I am in despair as to where our country is at. With the cost of living crisis looming (and already beginning), this winter is going to be brutal and likely life ending for so many in the UK, and the current aspiring leadership of the Tory party seem to be more interested in litigating culture wars and appeasing NIMBY pensioners in the Home countries than actually addressing any of the serious problems in the UK.

I've never been a Tory voter, but I've always been able to get along with people who have different views (provided they aren't racist/homophobic etc). But how anyone could see all the misery and deprivation on the horizon, look at the prospective leaders and frontbenchers with their complete lack of sultions, and continue with supporting them is genuinely beyond me. I find myself slowly being consumed by bitterness and rage against people for their views, and it frightens me. Am I alone in this?

OP posts:
DownNative · 12/08/2022 20:37

ImWell · 12/08/2022 15:42

Dear God you are dishonest. He supported them as in wanted them to win, and said so, that was not illegal.

Anyone who can support him after the EHRC report, and his sick comments this week on Ukraine is not worth engaging with further. Thankfully you will never, ever get a UK government that goes along with views like yours.

Neil Kinnock kept Corbyn at arms length when he was leader of Labour and for very good reason. Kinnock was furious with Corbyn's sympathising of PSF/PIRA.

Labour's David Winnick had debates with Corbyn on this issue and he was appalled:

"Where he (Corbyn) differed was Ireland. "I strongly disagreed with the line he took. I constantly argued that there was no justification for the IRA. I thought he was wrong."

There's quite a few other notable individuals including some who were part of the Good Friday Agreement negotiations who've said the same thing.

Notably, Corbyn had zero involvement in the Good Friday Agreement which he only supported after PSF/PIRA had been militarily defeated in order to do to them what was done to the Official IRA in 1973....force them into politics and to give up terrorism.

It says a lot Corbyn opposed the Anglo-Irish Agreement peace process in 1985 which PSF/PIRA also opposed. This agreement went on to become a foundation of the GFA itself, so wasn't massively different.

In the Leaders TV debate ahead of the General Election, an audience member challenged Corbyn on attending a meeting at Loughgall in 1987.

Corbyn response: "The contribution I made to that meeting was to call for a peace and dialogue process in Northern Ireland."

The audience member informed Corbyn he was from Northern Ireland and it was public knowledge that Loughgall meeting in 1987 in London was ONLY about commemorating PIRA terrorists. And not all victims of the Troubles as Corbyn lied about. At no stage was that IRA meeting in Loughgall about a "call for peace and dialogue".

It was about commemorating PIRA terrorists who'd just blown up Loughgall RUC police station and nearly succeeded in murder. The SAS recovered from the huge blast enough to open fire and neutralise the PIRA terrorists in 10 minutes.

Silence came from Corbyn on that one. The truth was he'd been honouring them - his words on that night is below.

"'I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland'.” - Corbyn 1987

Ooft! Right after the Loughgall terrorists were neutralised by the SAS too. Bad optics.

Hey, at least he never became PM!

AndreaC74 · 12/08/2022 21:03

DownNative · 12/08/2022 19:57

@AndreaC74 why don’t you try quoting the actual post made by @ImWell if you think that's what they said?

They did not state that.

But there is a body of evidence Corbyn supported Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA. As did his buddies Diane Abbott and John McDonnell.

No wonder Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell couldn't succeed in the 2019 election. When the then PSF President and PIRA Commander Gerry Adams publicly supported Corbyn, that was it. And it was the first time Adams ever publicly did so. The last time too. He couldn't get his useful idiot over the line.

FFS i cut n pasted his exact quote.

DownNative · 12/08/2022 21:15

AndreaC74 · 12/08/2022 21:03

FFS i cut n pasted his exact quote.

And misinterpreted it completely....🤷‍♂️

AndreaC74 · 13/08/2022 07:04

DownNative · 12/08/2022 21:15

And misinterpreted it completely....🤷‍♂️

Well we obviously have a very different interpretation of the word "Support"

His complete post...

Well yes, he was. He actively supported their campaign of bombing in mainland Britain, and argued against those who though otherwise
I know that many people want to rewrite history, and pretend that he was some kind of “let’s bring people together” peacemaker, but he wasn’t; he supported only one side, the IRA

As i said, supporting a bombing campaign would be illegal, yet Corbyn was never charged ... so either the security services are inept or he didn't support bombings, numerous quotes where he said he condemned all violence.

Perhaps either you have evidence of this "active support"

DownNative · 14/08/2022 14:02

AndreaC74 · 13/08/2022 07:04

Well we obviously have a very different interpretation of the word "Support"

His complete post...

Well yes, he was. He actively supported their campaign of bombing in mainland Britain, and argued against those who though otherwise
I know that many people want to rewrite history, and pretend that he was some kind of “let’s bring people together” peacemaker, but he wasn’t; he supported only one side, the IRA

As i said, supporting a bombing campaign would be illegal, yet Corbyn was never charged ... so either the security services are inept or he didn't support bombings, numerous quotes where he said he condemned all violence.

Perhaps either you have evidence of this "active support"

No, you completely misunderstand the phrase "He actively supported their campaign of bombing in mainland Britain, and argued against those who though otherwise" @ImWell typed.

They clearly meant Corbyn was in favour of the Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA campaign of terrorism. In other words, he was in favour of it. This is not illegal itself.

See Labour's David Winnick's talking about how he argued AGAINST Corbyn that the Provos were NOT justified in their terrorism as well. It's just not an illegal act to argue you believe PSF/PIRA were justified even though they were not.

Abbott and McDonnell had the same view as Corbyn - they supported PSF/PIRA terrorism against the British State and the British people.

Had Corbyn's sympathising went as far as to actively aid and enable the Provos to carry out a bombing campaign....he'd have broken the law and been arrested.

As for how the Security Forces regarded Corbyn, this is common knowledge top in Northern Ireland, Westminster and Dublin Castle:

"I used to look at him when he used to visit Belfast in the 1980s, when he was running around with guys who had done some hortible things, and think: "who is this guy? What is he thinking coming here?" I think our colleagues in England would have been more concerned with his antics. They would have panicked at some of what he got up to."

And:

"He (Corbyn) was someone who was bringing these people (PSF/PIRA) just to put pressure on the government, as opposed to saying, "You need to get these people (PSF/PIRA) to stop the violence and then we can so business...that these people need to make a declaration of intent to say we are going to stop, and that wasn't coming from Jeremy Corbyn."

Corbyn also supported the Troops Out Movement which was a Republican/PSF/PIRA front group. The aims of this organisation was also delegitimised by the GFA. Troops Out Movement was really a pro-IRA movement aimed at convincing enough gullible, naive uninformed British people in Great Britain to pressure the UK Government to withdraw the British Army completely. Such a demand would NOT have led to peace, but to all out civil war in Northern Ireland. It's other aim of "self-determination for the Irish people as a whole" also clashes with the GFA which does NOT give this as it recognises Northern Ireland's people are the only ones who can make decisions for Northern Ireland's future.

Some Provos have since admitted they "just couldn't crack that nut" in turning the British people against the British Army and Ulster's British citizens.

Whichever way you turn, Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell constantly supported the aims, agendas and methods of the Republican Movement aka Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA aka The Provos.

Supporting such dangerous terrorist organisations in this manner isn't illegal. But aiding and abetting terrorism is which is something they didn't do.

So, no, you continue to misrepresent what @ImWell actually said as you're not doing well in the debate at all.

One thing you will never find from Corbyn is a statement condemning PSF/PIRA violence UNEQUIVOCALLY. A genuine, reasonable and honest person would condemn any terrorism in strictly unequivocal terms when asked to do so. Corbyn never, ever dies.

I can condemn PSF/PIRA unequivocally in the same way I can condemn the PUP/UVF unequivocally. I do NOT under any circumstances need to qualify condemnation of PSF/PIRA with that of PUP/UVF - it's not necessary, but is something a supporter of each terrorist group actually does. 🤔

AndreaC74 · 14/08/2022 14:50

@DownNative Nope, "Actively supported" means one thing only, if he'd said "He Supported..." (which many of your examples go on about) then fair enough, i'd agree, its the Actively, that totally changes the meaning....

Aside, Don't know why you are so invested in something another poster said.

DownNative · 14/08/2022 16:00

AndreaC74 · 14/08/2022 14:50

@DownNative Nope, "Actively supported" means one thing only, if he'd said "He Supported..." (which many of your examples go on about) then fair enough, i'd agree, its the Actively, that totally changes the meaning....

Aside, Don't know why you are so invested in something another poster said.

No, "actively supported" does not equate to aiding and abetting terrorism.

It is true Corbyn supported PSF/PIRA acts of terrorism. As did Abbott and McDonnell, so that was three very good reasons to keep them out of Government.

Adams and McGuinness liked having them involved in their Republican front pressure groups. But didn't trust them with actual details of their plans for murder.

DownNative · 14/08/2022 16:01

Besides, it's all well off topic, @AndreaC74 . You have still been unable to show how it's undemocratic to exclude people and groups from the political process.

It's clearly not.

Good day to you!

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