To think our attitude towards the elderly is bad in the UK?

[Fifife]

Currently on holiday in Crete, it's my first time here. I can't believe the difference you see the very elderly all the time at the tavernas sitting relaxing with their friends and friends. Playing games together, laughing joking they seem to be very much still involved in society. It's made me sad , the elderly seem to become invisible at home. What could we do to change this ?

My mother was active in the church and played table tennis weekly until she was 90 and dementia took over. She never drove but travelled all over the place by bus and walking, was in a drama group and had a friendship circle largely much younger than she was.

She didn't vote Conservative and I don't imagine for one moment she'd have voted for Brexit either.

Anecdotal ‘I know an elderly person who voted Labour’ doesn’t mean anything. The fact is a 75 year old was twice as likely as a 25 year old to vote Conservative at the last election.

For the record my 91 year old Granddad voted remain and loathed Boris and his cronies, so I am well aware that not every elderly person holds Conservative/Brexiteer views but the stats speak for themselves.

I'm not disputing the fact that Conservative voting is skewed by age, but I resent the lazy stereotyping that goes on and the resultant feeling that as an older person I have to justify not fitting the stereotype.

The few people I know who vote Tory and voted for Brexit are almost all younger than I am.

It's a mixture of factors, for sure and will vary a great deal depending on health, wealth, lifestyle, etc. It's obviously a generalisation but I do agree with with what @karalimed has written. We live in a selfish society which has been created by the older generation. They (en mass, obviously), bought into Thatcher's ideas, there is no such thing as society, etc. Personally, I think that's a terrible way to think and believe that it is to everyone's benefit to have lots of inter generational mixing but that is not the way the UK works. It's all very well Asian posters (or others) saying they are surprised by the way the elderly are treated in the UK but that's because many want to 'enjoy their retirement' or 'do their own thing', etc or retire to Cornwall without thinking things through. Their adult daughters (and sons) are under a lot of pressure to work nowadays and tend to have children later so it's harder and if you have isolated yourself and not been supportive or shown an interest over the years, relationships tend to be much less close or even deteriorate completely.

Part of the problem is that too many younger people don't vote at all. Over 75s do.

I live in Singapore and find the city centre/restaurants/all public spaces are much more family and all-age friendly throughout the day, and most noticeably in the evenings, than in the U.K. Same in Vietnam, and in Italy. In the U.K. the drinking culture seems to make city centres no go zones after 6pm which is such a pity.

You also get groups of older people gathering here in the void decks (public spaces) under the Housing Development Board blocks of flats (imagine council flats but 80% of the population live in them and there’s none of the stigma you get in the U.K.) to play mahjong, chat to friends, eat, or do hobbies like showing off their songbirds.

Plus there’s fundamental differences in how older people are seen- filial piety is enshrined in law, with parents able to sue adult children for support if they are not giving them enough, housing is often built with multi-generational living in mind. It’s not perfect, as older Singaporeans are often significantly less well off than their children due to the way the country developed, and there are issues with elder abuse etc, but it seems to work well.

My MIL is Singaporean and I've visited quite a few times and I agree. The elderly are more visible there as well and seen with all age groups. I think the UK has a very individualistic society.

Your mum sound so much like my MIL!
Waiting for us to take her places and then barely walk once we’re there and just wait in the car…

She‘s also hardly engaging with her grandchildren - she loves them and wants to see them, but then she just sits there watching telly. I‘m not expecting her to run around with them, but at least have a chat or read a book together.

i have noticed elderly people seem to be less tolerant of small children in the U.K. I don’t know if it’s because they can’t really remember how their own kids were at that age, but it’s all ‘when I was younger children never tantrummed’ ‘when I was younger children were better behaved’ etc.

in other countries they seem to love small children and don’t just see them as ‘there to spoil the peace’.

so maybe it’s a two way thing.

I don't know how true this is. I can only you off anecdotal evidence but almost every one my age 20-30 have spent ab significant part of their childhood being cared for by their grandparents (now 70-90). However now we are all having children ourselves, our parents are not babysitting or putting in the same effort their parents did helping them out with their children.

So as a result, the grandparents of my generation seem to be visited often by their own children, and adult grand children separately. I can't see my children being that involved with my parents when they are old amd frail and my children are adults because they haven't fostered the relationship with them.

It seems to be the same story with everyone I know.

And my grandparents still worked when they had us. I remember my grandad retiring. We were babysat every week and taken on holiday (all grandchildren from all of their children, 5 altogether) every week and at least one week away a year, usually more. (cheap camping)
We also had all of the grandchildren from all of our great aunties and uncles together.

My grandparents said that their parents helped a lot with their children so they helped alot with their children's children (my generation) but their children have skipped on helping out with their children's children and I think it'll have an effect on who is there to help out when they are old and need it.

I know nobody should have kids expecting others to look after them but babysitting your grand children so their parents can go Christmas shopping without them isn't that unreasonable I wouldn't think.

Same with me @bluescluesbluecow

My dad’s parents moved close to us as kids to help out, babysat on demand and probably had us 1 weekend in every 5 so they could have time together

now I’ve got kids my dad has buggered off to sunnier climes and just sends an Amazon delivery on birthdays

so if Dd doesn’t want to visit him in his old age, wouldn’t that be understandable?

They're everywhere around here - cafes, sitting in the park in the sunshine at this time of year, pubs, library, shops, the supermarket cafes, garden centre cafes seem to be a particular favourite.

They're normally with other older people though, presumably because younger people are working?

Just about every woman in the previous generations of my family stopped work to care for elderly parents (then inherited house when they died but remained single and living 'at home'), or moved back to the home city and went extremely part-time in order to care for parents and have a family of their own. None of the men did this. That isn't an option for me, even if I wanted to do it. There is no work for me in my home city, I work full-time and am the breadwinner and my family wouldn't be able to afford to live if I stopped work. Plus my pension is a lot lot worse than those of the two generations above me.

It's a massive myth that the elderly have all had it easy. Yeah their house prices went up but they also lived through the 3 day week, massive interest rates in the 80s, societal and technological change and all the industrial action that came with it along the way.

As an example: holidays. Most families I deal with holidayed in the UK or on campsites when they had their own children. So who are we to judge them for spending their retirement chasing the sun a bit? It's cheaper and easier now, they have the money, good luck to them.

I'm also uncomfortable with castigating people based on what they may or may not have voted for in the past. Everyone votes for their own reasons and it's based on personal circumstances at the time. A true left winger would show compassion to a 90 year old Tory voter who needs some assistance in later life, rather than say "bollocks to you, this is what you voted for in 1984"

It's not just voting though is it.

Society is shaped by the people in it. Elderly people didn't spontaneously burst into existence at age 80. People in their 80s now were in their 40s in the 1980s. They were the ones in charge, making the decisions, bringing up their own children. We are now seeing the consequences of those actions.

Of course it's not all elderly people, but enough of them, otherwise how do you think it happened? Either a) this is a British cultural thing that has always existed or b) something changed.

Equally, if we as younger people want to be respected as elderly people we need to start taking action now. We need to start valuing family and community more.

I'm also uncomfortable with castigating people based on what they may or may not have voted for in the past.

Why? They’re basically still voting for the same thing, now. There doesn’t seem to have been an en masse change of heart.

I’ve seen Italian families on holiday who seem to have elderly relatives with them or sitting in groups chatting as you say more visible, I help care for my elderly mother, she has lost most of her friends yet I’ve got family that really don’t bother visiting, it’s very sad.

If someone needs help, I'll help them. I don't care how they vote or what their views are to be perfectly honest.

If you'd leave a 90 year old Brexit voter sat in their own shit to their own devices in order to teach them a lesson because you disagree with their political views, that's up to you. But I won't.

This thread answers its own question, really. Lots of posts saying it’s the elderly’s own fault, for voting for Thatcher, not being interested enough in grandchildren, wanting to do in retirement things they weren’t able to do when working, etc. All of these saying basically “yes, we don’t treat the elderly well, why should we?”

And those seeking to give the contrary view, by examples of the elderly staying active, volunteering etc, are basically giving examples of the elderly helping themselves.

Our cul-de-sac is a mini community. I've just come in out of the sun as I'm too hot, but there are folks from 6 out of 10 houses outside gardening, chatting, lending stuff, etc.most are elderly, though one has his son and grandchildren round teaching them cricket in the square.

We are in suburbia... I imagine it varies a bit depending where you are.

@Technosaurus in my case, its not simply the fact my parents voted for Brexit, its constantly hearing about how we (work in public sector) should stop complaining, poor people should just try hard enough etc and really all bad things are exaggerated. Its the complete lack of empathy now they've got their expensive house and final salary pension. I hope their expensive house they love so much takes care of them, cos am too busy working even harder to bring up my kids.

I get what you mean maybe the boomers are a little more selfish than the silent generation. My dear nan bless her soul babysat us constantly in my childhood. I used to go for weeks at a time my own parents have babysat my DD twice since she was born and she's 9 🤣🤣. My MIL who's Singaporean always asks to babysit DD and spend time with her.

Are all the moaning Minnie's on here really going to age into a close knit , supportive society with their DCs nearby so they can babysit or childmind - judging by the number of holidays they go on they're suddenly going to want to stay home, potter in the garden. We'll see.

My dear nan bless her soul babysat us constantly
Did dear nan have a full time job?

One day my Mum will be very old and people will wonder why two of her daughters never visit, despite living in the next town.

They will think we are selfish but they won't know the truth about how that woman lived her life.

Some people earn their social isolation.