To think our attitude towards the elderly is bad in the UK?

[Fifife]

Currently on holiday in Crete, it's my first time here. I can't believe the difference you see the very elderly all the time at the tavernas sitting relaxing with their friends and friends. Playing games together, laughing joking they seem to be very much still involved in society. It's made me sad , the elderly seem to become invisible at home. What could we do to change this ?

My parents, uncles and aunts, all over 80y old, live in England but are frequent visitors to Israel. They all notice a huge difference in the way they are treated in each country. They are far more invisible in England.

In Israel they get ushered to the fronts of queues by other customers and have doors held for them, for example. And this in a country with a well-deserved reputation for brashness and pushiness! Many local facilities issue them with priority cards as well.

In England the expectation seems to be that they will sit quietly and wait their turn, whenever it may come, in everything.

My parents have also commented that the most courteous and attentive service they receive here in England is often from immigrants, who appear to have infinite patience for the elderly.

I think it often depends on the older person and how social they are.
My colleagues Nan (97) is often out with her family having drinks and enjoying life! Even though she does have minor strokes now & again.
But my late Nan at 90 wouldn't leave the flat even to go for coffee as she'd become very paranoid... turned out she had dementia.

I know lots of people in their early - mid 70s who socialise but I struggle to think of them in the same age bracket as the very elderly.

One difference in the UK is that uptake in university education has meant people move away from their family and then get a job in say a third city. Therefore, families live very far away form each other. In Europe - families live close to relatives so it's more natural to keep supporting each other. Unlike in the UK

I think if you actually look at research, UK ranks better than Greece regarding care of the elderly.

Don't try to draw conclusions based on some people sitting outside cafes in a holiday area!

Next you'll be insisting that only the English ship the elderly off to care homes.

I think probably a large chunk of it is down to poverty - there are very high levels of elderly poverty in the UK, which can be isolating in the extreme, it makes travel and socializing difficult, and it also increases the likelihood of poor health, which then further isolates them.

I have noticed (I'm not originally from the UK) that there is more disdain in general towards older people and the elderly here than anywhere else I've lived, particularly from younger people. The number of times I've heard someone just scratching 20 that they won't respect anyone until that person's earned it is sadly quite high. They also don't seem to see the irony that they actually haven't lived long enough to 'earn' it themselves, and the elderly person has probably done a thousand more things just by virtue of longevity, so really you should automatically assume most of them have done something for that respect by now!

But still, I think the main thing driving it is poverty, which increases their ill health and isolation.

I wonder if there's a link between cognitive decline and lack of involvement in society

there absolutely is - covid lockdowns made dementia and other cognitive decline worse

but lots of elderly people do have a social life; it will depend how healthy they are though, if they can still drive and if there is decent public transport and local facilities

I agree with this and being originally from outside the UK (and Western Europe) I do sometimes see a sort of disconnect between generations here.

I remember there was a thread here during the Covid lockdowns where a woman said her family was beginning to fall apart will all the homeschooling and working from home. She was upset because her mum had refused to join their bubble to be able to help with the kids a bit.
Several people told her that it wasn’t her mum’s job to help out. I found that attitude rather cold - if I remember correctly the mum wasn’t particularly old, she just didn’t feel like helping.

That’s also a valid point.

Because this is the society that the elderly have created.

They had decades to teach their own children to be kind to the elderly, to foster community structures that encourage elderly people to participate, to keep housing costs low so that communities and families could stay together and that elderly people could be more easily cared for, to properly fund the NHS and social care.

But they chose not to do any of that. Instead they voted for Thatcher when she said "there is no such thing as society" and here we are 35 years later.

Those Greek elderly people put an effort into sustaining a culture that respects elderly people.

I think a lot depends on the elderly person and how much they want to go out and get involved with stuff. DH’s Grandad is in his mid 80s and he’s always out and about, still goes to the local pub to chat to people and goes out for a curry once a week with friends too. I know my friend’s grandparents are similar and are involved with a couple of local clubs too. My Gran is totally different, especially since covid and barely leaves the house. She’s only 77 which I don’t even consider to be ludicrously old nowadays but she has no life anymore and just sits at home alone using covid as an excuse despite having four vaccines… I feel sorry for her but we’ve tried to help numerous times and she isn’t up for accepting the help.

True but you’ll be criticised for saying it.

I must say I had similar thoughts as @Louise56 based on the OP, since it mentioned elderly people out and about with their friends.

I‘d assume these people are physically and cognitively to do it, but they also have the will to be out and about, and that makes a difference.

My own MIL lives in a different part of the UK, but whenever we visit/ pick her up to visit us/ go on holiday together we try to include her as much as possible, but she seems to be withdrawing more and more into a „feeble old lady“ routine, disconnected from her surroundings, which doesn’t exactly make spending time together easier… It’s not a recent thing either, she’s had that tendency for quite a while now.

Whereas a friend of ours is similar age like my MIL, but seems to be much more connected to life, with hobbies, friends and so on.

@karalimed yup! I agree.

And I also think a lot of it is weather dependent and person dependent. You need to keep working on those social circles throughout life, especially as you get older. My DM moved to be nearer her family but never engaged with her new local community directly when she was fit and able to. There is loads of stuff she could have partaken in but she just waited for her family to visit and take her out places then would complain she’d not seen anyone for days. It must’ve been so isolating for her but it was her own doing.

I find it hard to have a particularly caring attitude when you look at the society we live in now. Young people with huge amounts of debt, unable to afford their own homes and struggling to live financially.

Perhaps if the older generation were inclined to vote for parties that don’t just financially benefit themselves the younger generation would be more inclined to help out more.

Its perfectly understandable for there to be resentment.

We have a dreadful attitude to elderly people, so I agree with you, OP. And some care homes are shit holes, and more of them are understaffed and poorly paid. Blaming older people for Thatcherism is ignorant, and if some older people are dull to spend time with, maybe their health is changing or they are changing as a result of extended social isolation.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement
Not all elderly people voted for Thatcher.

@Mascia exactly. It’s the person’s attitude. Just because someone is getting on a bit or frail, if they are not engaged or interested in anything else it makes it difficult. My DM wouldn’t go anywhere too far and barely talk when we took her places. We still do but her cognitive decline I’m sure is exacerbated because she has followed the same routine with little interaction so actually has nothing to talk about. My friends’ parents on the other hand are engaged with life and participate as much as possible.

I work in funerals so hear a lot of life stories. Seems to me to be two types of growing old:

1. Getting out there having a ball
2. Stuck inside waiting to die Thankfully, in my experience it's an even split between the two but there doesn't seem to be much of a grey area in between, sadly. The major determining factor between the two being health. If you're feeling alright, you're more likely to go out. If you've got a myriad tablets to take and find walking far a struggle, or indeed if you have to look after your husband/wife who is afflicted, you're more likely to stay in. The mind follows the body. Even for people in category 1, it's a slippery slope to category 2 that's hard to reverse - whether they be long term or simply a loss of confidence in going out following a fall etc. They simply lose interest in going out, socialising, making friends etc. Covid has also put a huge blocker up for many people.

I would agree with PP's that something as trivial as the weather may make the difference between the UK and abroad, I regularly hear "she wouldn't go out from December to March in case she slipped" style comments.

There's also the issue of general geography. The UK's cities and towns are largely quite sprawling, and public transport isn't brilliant outside of London. It's also quite common for people to move in later life to be nearer children/grandchildren, so they lose their friendship network overnight - regardless of one's age it's hard to start from scratch. I'd wager in Crete the villages are much smaller and it's more common for the kids to move to big cities for work with no expectation that Grandma will follow them.

It's up to each and every one of us to cherish our older relatives as best we can, but I don't think it's a nationwide 'sin'...

Here we go. Of course young people are getting a rough deal but plenty of older people don't vote Tory.

The UK has inferior culture when it comes to how our children and elderly are treated and viewed.
I haven't RTFT and although I can't put my finger on why, I've definitely noticed a big negative difference between us and Mediterranean countries.

But most did. Thats point. Most of them vote Tory, most of them voted for Brexit.

They have been actively voting against the interests of their kids and grandkids for what? A trip down memory lane to a time that no longer exists?

I've got a friend who's 87. She's had to stop driving in the last year due to eyesight problems but she still works and is one of the most stimulating and interesting people I know.

She still has a pretty good social life too.

Incidentally she's voted Labour all her life.

There are plenty on this site alone who voted for Brexit and state their intention of voting Conservative as they did last time. I suspect most of them are a lot younger than I am.

I’m at the “younger end” of elderly - 66.
I play in a table tennis club where two 86 year olds regularly thrash me off the table!
Similarly, at my bridge club, many of the top players are in their 80s. They also regularly play golf.
My church has a mix of parishioners from 3 to 92 years old, and runs a pop in tea morning popular with the older ones.( Who also take a turn on the tea rota). Our Sunday school teacher recently celebrated 50 years in post.
I think because of the climate, you don’t see the elderly outside so much as in, say, Greece. But you’ll find us at a multitude of evening classes, social clubs, yoga, tai chi, etc, and mob handed in garden centres!

I think the opposite. I think we tend to idolise the elderly and think they are all sweet and lovely and were hard working and deserving of help, but demonise the young and think they are all lazy, scrounging student loans etc and deserving of making things ever harder for them. In reality, some elderly are lovely and were hard working, some are horrible and the same for the young. That's certainly how the press portray different ages.