Am I reading too much into this comment by DS?

[BenjiLove]

DS is three. He is potty trained & has been dry for months, but recently has started peeing on stuff. I think it's probably for attention (isn't most stuff to do with toddlers?) and he does it when I'm tending to the baby. Working out what to do about it is another thread I guess.

Anyway - it's really winding DH up. He gets so mad. Today DS did it in our bed. DS just started peeing all over our pillows.

DH went mad. DS cried. DH went out the bedroom. DS followed him and said

"Sorry Daddy peeing on bed. Don't be sad. Mummy will tidy it up".

I don't know why but it's pushed me over the edge. I do tidy it up all the time. But I just think GOD - what am I doing?? What am I showing DS?

I said to DH "Don't you think it's worrying. DS knows that daddy gets angry and mummy tidies everything up. That isn't healthy role modelling etc"

DH says I'm being OTT and kids just say stuff.

AIBU to think this comment by DS means something and that we are giving him unhealthy images of women and men and their roles? Or am I being OTT?

No shit.

You'd have been better off asking on the dog room first.

@NetWithHoles I don't understand "you'd have been better off asking on the dog room first"

I know its basic stuff. I was just agreeing with you as you'd pulled up someone for saying kids shouldn't be praised for normal behaviour so I was just sharing the conversation with the HV to show @CarlCarlson that it's standard advice to shower small children with praise when they get stuff right or act "normally".

The HV did also say to my DH who spoke about getting angry "DS is only 3. He won't remember any of this" which I thought wasn't right? He might not remember the individual moments but getting angry at small kids does affect them. DH felt pretty vindicated by that and spent yesterday telling me that the HV agrees with him.

He won’t remember specific incidents but his whole way of being in the world is being shaped by his experience now. If that weren’t true, why would anyone bother trying to be a good parent to a baby or toddler? Maybe HV was trying to reassure DH that he doesn’t need to worry about one isolated incident, but I’m guessing (from the fact you had the HV round and are asking on here) that it’s not an isolated incident.

Children who are adopted even very young following abuse can experience trauma for years afterwards. Why would they if what they didn’t remember didn’t affect them? (Not suggesting your DS is being abused.) Your DH must know this, surely?

Sounds very tough, op, and you’re obviously doing your best. Solicitor is a good idea even if just to get your head round things.

At age 3 my son went through a stage of peeing uncontrollably a few months after we finished potty training. He’s an only child and had all of my attention, definitely wasn’t deliberate, he found it quite scary.

I think both of you blaming your son will make him anxious and make the problem worse.

I also think you are reading too much into the comment, children tend to see mum as the magic person who can fix everything, it doesn’t mean he sees you as the cleaner more that he trusts you can solve the problem.

I’d keep him out of your bedroom and off the sofa for a while but I wouldn’t blame him.

Also re the anger, I have plenty of memories from age 3, there’s no reason to assume he’ll forget everything from this age. The HV sounds rubbish.

Hahaha the absolute lad

you can teach DS to pick stuff up all you like - but your DH needs to model the behaviour too. And he needs to be all over "mummy will do it" with "no, you will do it and i will help you"

Your DH should be doing more than you if he works fewer hours - you need to get a handle on this now. And if you have another child and go on ML? if you start doing everything again and your DH swans around letting your DS thing "mummy does it all" that will be modelling behaviour again. So if you are planning a 2nd, get on top of this now.

@Minecraftatemychild Exactly! Of course these years are so important. But she was saying these years are so important to teach your kids that if they behave unacceptably there are some serious consequences. Which I get but I still don't know if DHs anger feels helpful. I talked about his tantrums, refusing to get dressed, have his haircut, hating the bath etc etc and wanted to talk about if he was ND but both HV and DH basically said no no...he's just not being given tough enough consequences for his actions. She kept saying "you won't like it if he's peeing on the bed at 10 years old" and I was like "obviously not. I don't like it now. I'm just trying to work out how to make him stop without causing WW3"

Have a look on the ERIC website - it's very practical and useful.

www.eric.org.uk/parents-and-carers

This is a tough situation especially when your husband isn't helping. He's shouting, knowing this will probably make you want to quickly rectify the problem to calm the situation down.
That really isn't team work. He needs to be helping. If you didn't sort the pillows and i ahead said for him to sort them this time, do you think he would?

Also I'd be annoyed by son saying this and I would where possible get him to help tidy. I know it's probably more time consuming. But saying something like "ok, now you've done a wee on the pillows, we need to tidy it up so take the covers off them now please" and show him how. If he wants to play .. "we can't have any playtime until everything is tidy and clean again".

I'm just trying to work out how to make him stop without causing WW3

This reminds me of a friend who we don't see any more because her DS (now 6) is impossible to be around.

All his life he has got away with not only doing what he wants, but also controlling others, by throwing a tantrum. His mother is so desperate to avoid these tantrums that she never says no to him. The rest of us just dealt with the tantrums - which are an inevitable fact of life with young children - and they no longer happen at 6 or 7.

You can't be afraid of your 3 year old child's reaction to discipline - you have to grit your teeth and work through it.

I was wondering whether there is something ND/sensory going on here. But even if not, I really don't think the gleeful disciplinarians who tend to descend on these threads have the answer. (Really? Getting a 3yo to clean up his wee? Entirely impractical, quite apart from the message to the child).
(Btw, I find the demonising of children doing things 'for attention' on here and in various 'tough love' parenting approaches quite puzzling. This child is at an age where, not all that long ago, attention was literally life. All behaviour is communication, but communication is not something we should be trying to metaphorically beat out of our children)
My approach would be not to treat this as 'behaviour' or try to 'tackle' it at all. Regular reminders to use the loo incl putting him on the loo whenever you go or are otherwise in the bathroom. Cleaning it up without comment (but not punitive non-comment iykwim). A trip to the doctor just to check there is no physical cause. Take the heat and the emotion out of it (those will only make it worse anyway - especially if it is part of neurodiversity).

On your thread title, you're projecting - turning an observation by your son into more than it is and mapping out a future for him as a misogynist. That's going too far - but there's a reason for your projecting, and the reason is that you know your husband isn't pulling his weight by any means, but you're struggling to accept that directly. But this is something you're going to have to thrash out with him, leaving your child out of it.

@YouSoundLovely

“Getting a 3yo to clean up his wee? Entirely impractical, quite apart from the message to the child).”

whats the message to the child - that pissing everywhere is wrong and it’s their mess so they have to clean it up?

what on earth is wrong with that?!

honestly I get the impression that some mummy martyrs would just smile beatifically at their offspring should they piss on their bed and then uncomplainingly and serenely clean it up “it’s ok darling, don’t be upset, it’s ok, love you”

honestly I get the impression that some mummy martyrs on here would just smile beatifically at their offspring should they piss on their bed and then uncomplainingly and serenely clean it up “it’s ok darling, don’t be upset, it’s ok, love you”

The child's three!
I think a lot of MNers ascribe extents of wilful deviousness, manipulation etc to very little children that are simply not the case.

My eldest is 17. From that vantage point you appreciate how little 3 really is.

There are three possibilities here - the child can't help it, there's neurodiversity at play, or he's doing it deliberately - literally 'acting out' some kind of distress. Discipline will be no use whatsoever with the first two. And with the third, it may address the symptoms but unlikely the cause. He's not doing it to oppress his mother, FGS.

*can't help it in the sense of 'has some kind of physical issue'.

Not to derail, but seriously, what is he adding to your life? He’s lazy so even tho he’ll claim to want 50/50, of course he won’t because he can’t be arsed to parent the dc now. Don’t let that stop you from making steps if that’s what you want. How is he not working?

@YouSoundLovely

sometimes are kids are just naughty you know even at three years old

@YouSoundLovely

and not all bad behaviour can be attributed to neurodiversity

people on mumsnet so quick to jump to autism to explain any difficult behaviour from their child even if said behaviour is way off from the diagnostic criteria!

'Naughty' literally means 'worthless'. I don't use the word. Never have.

And yes, children don't do as they are told, push boundaries, and even behave badly for the sake of it. I know this; I've brought up three of them. But behaviour is still communication, and especially behaviour of this kind. Children, once dry, generally don't just regress in that respect for no reason.

@YouSoundLovely (you do actually sound lovely) - I wasn't saying my 3 year old is growing up as a misogynist - just that I read on MN a lot about role modelling and the impact of relationship dynamics on kids - I've been putting up with DH not pulling his weight for an easier life - and then I saw that that is what DS is observing. Or maybe mummy is just the magic fixer. But isn't that kind of the same thing? Anyway - I'm not blaming my 3 year old for anything obviously - he's 3. I'm just trying to work out how to help him and be a good mum.

@YouSoundLovely
“He's not doing it to oppress his mother, FGS.”
This made me giggle! In a good way, what with the bathos.
But I don’t think we are suggesting that the little boy is aware of what he is saying on this level. But if he is picking up that mummy = tidies and daddy = gets all lairy then that’s a problem in terms of role models.

@LuckySantangelo35 @YouSoundLovely I've been reading this book "no such thing as naughty" which is helpful in understanding why young kids (under 5) do certain things. What I have found less helpful is what to practically do about it e.g. it's all very well saying that young kids aren't pissing on pillows to be deliberately annoying (I don't think my 3 year old is thinking where is the grossest place to wee....I mean, he peed in his potty a few weeks ago and then went to wash his hands in it...he doesn't have the same understanding of gross as we do)....BUT, I can't exactly just ignore it as clearly it needs to stop and he needs to know it's absolutely not acceptable. So I'm not angry at DS but I also don't agree with just ignoring and cleaning up....because he's got to understand consquences??

Can I just as an aside - whenever I read threads like this - people replying are always so confident in their responses "OH my gosh - I would never be angry at a three year" "Oh my god - I can't believe you let him get away with that" etc etc - how is everyone so confident in their own instincts? All I want to do is help DS with his behaviour and there are so many conflicting ideas and approaches and I'm so worried I'm fucking him up.

@BenjiLove you are a good mum, and you're not fucking it up. Lots of mums have had problems with tiny children weeing where they shouldn't! If you weren't a good mum, you wouldn't be asking.