To think that very few people can manage £4200 energy bills

[Butterflyfluff]

news.sky.com/story/energy-bills-forecast-to-rise-even-higher-than-previously-thought-12668906

This simply isn’t manageable for the majority of people.

Where’s this going to end?

Yes, although they would probably be workhouses as Tories don't believe in handouts. Child labour and all. Or maybe send the poor to Rwanda.

is that an average, i would think most people wouldnt be paying that much?

I'm sure that's just about verbatim what Truss said.

And some will be paying more?

@Liebig chucking in Venezuela is like involving Hitler in an argument, too extreme. Maybe more like France with public utilities in national ownership because it is a matter of vital strategic national importance and are natural monopolies - there is only pipe and cable into our houses for water, gas and electricity.

TBH I think it's the people who are very elderly and retired and on only state pensions who are going to be hit badly.

The state pension, without pension credit (top ups) is less than £9K pa. So these fuel bills could amount to 50% of their income. Council tax even for a single person is £2K+pa in some areas even for a small house.

Not an expert here, so forgive me if this wrong, but I was under the impression that if state pension is their only income, they are entitled to pension credit - and should be encouraged and enabled to claim it. That then entitles them to a load of other help, including Council Tax benefit (major reduction - or even all of it?), housing benefit if renting (rent covered?).

Again, I may be wrong here. And tbh even if CT and rent were completely covered, personally I wouldn’t fancy having less than £100 per week to live on after paying my fuel bills.

Look on this thread, less than £400 pcm for a 5 bed council house. A family in the south will pay nearly three times that in rent for a modest 3 bed privately.

Our mortgage on a large 4bed house is less than £350 a month. We could rent it out privately for £850 a month. The problem isn't council properties.

I disagree! Whilst the war has increased the cost of utilities, Brexit and poor political choices for last 12 years are the cause.
France has capped at 5%..the cost to the country from poor health and deprivation will cost more.

aka tory voter base and who also voted for Brexit.

Rishi Sunak is currently mountain biking round North Yorkshire rather than doing anything useful. A friend spotted him yesterday.

Rish! Is probably totting up how much his new swimming pool is going to cost him to heat up

This is what already happens in less developed countries. We are being made (deliberately) a less developed country. People die or suffer because of underinvestment in health care. Children have fewer opportunities (unless they are from well off families). Public transport is run down. Prices spiral while wages stagnate. Rights to strike or protest legally are removed. Human rights are removed. Politicians are corrupt. Our resources and essential services are sold to corporations.

I keep seeing these posts saying “they cant” or “how can this be happening” but it does happen all over the world and it’s going to happen here.

The campaign refers to greater taxation on those in the top 10% of income.

In practice that means anyone earning on over £54,000 per year. Once that penny drops I can't see the campaign being that popular.

So who raises the hundreds of billions to pay for EdF’s UK operations along with the rest of the Big 6 suppliers and the UK based producers?

Because declaring force majeure and doing what Chávez did will not work out well. You effectively tell everyone that the UK gov’t will, on a whim, take your assets and pay you pennies for them, if at all. That’s effectively what we did with the oligarch situation regarding Russia, which has also led to capital flight at a time when we can ill afford it.

Says someone who probably doesn't pay her own energy bill, and has a ministers salary at her disposal.

The usage at the price cap is quite modest and will cover a well insulated semi or a small house or flat, but poor insulation, larger property or any 'above average' behaviour like heating on at night, tumble dryer use or leaving lights on and bills will be higher.

We're slightly above with a 2 bed extended semi occupied by 2 people, one 80% WFH but we have a very old fridge freezer, don't close doors for the cats and could be better with lights. Our windows aren't great either.

Before winter I'm going to get a catflap fitted in the living room door so we can close it when we're in there in the evening to avoid heating the whole house.

I signed up for that campaign and DH is a higher rate tax payer.

My DH gets the least out of Liz Truss' tax cuts as he earns £65k.

You need to go further back. We’re talking the ‘80s Thatcher and then later Blair continuation of that trend.

The rot was already well apparent in 2010.

Are the government actually trying to handle this crisis at all?

I've not heard anything in the news about what their plans are for the energy crisis or how they are expecting to sort this out.

Are they just expecting people who couldn't make end meet last year, pay money they dont have?

Peope will definitely do what they can to save money and the service economy will suffer.

l’m currently on holiday in the U.K. in my own touring caravan. I’d normally eat out most days, get coffees, pay in the car parks. Apart from petrol I haven’t spent a Penny locally and I feel bad for that. Brought my own food with me from Aldi, eating in the caravan at night and taking sandwich’s with me for lunch. Finding free parking on the outskirts of towns/villages and walking further. I haven’t paid to go into anywhere.

on a day to day basis I’ve stopped having my hair coloured, legs waxed, eyebrows done. About to cancel gym membership. Cut down on lunches out. Wouldn’t dream of going to the cinema at £15 a ticket! These sort of places are going to go out of business with the resulting effect on the wider economy.

they are cutting taxes for the top 5% i.e. people who earn £80k and above.

thats the solution.

It depends on the amount of state pension they receive and also on savings. but yes many will be eligible to claim pension credit guarantee which passports claimants to full rent and council tax paid. I work for a charity for older people and we are currently seeing loads of pensioners trying to claim Attendance allowance which not only gives them the disability benefit but can also increase the likelihood of them qualifying for pension credit too especially if living alone.

I caught a bit of lbc just now and two self employed men were nearly in tears over the increase in the fuel prices. Both are working 12 hour days already. One had a shop and one was a driving instructor, so not easy jobs to juggle with families to feed as well as the other bills.
It is heartbreaking.

Its just a thought, but I wonder if this could lead to a house price crash? Surely a lot of older people in bigger homes will really struggle and decide they have to sell.
I don't expect mine to be that high (small flat, live alone), but even if its half that it will be tricky

@Liebig I never said that - but when the banks went bust or Network Rail we nationalised them and I was only talking about utilities, not wholesale nationalisation. How I haven't looked into it but I'm sure an equitable middle way can be found I'll ask (showing my age) Sid, he'll know.

Me too. It's incredibly worrying. Suicide rates are going to go up significantly.

@bowlingalleyblues It certainly looks like a massive transfer of wealth going on.