To think that very few people can manage £4200 energy bills

[Butterflyfluff]

news.sky.com/story/energy-bills-forecast-to-rise-even-higher-than-previously-thought-12668906

This simply isn’t manageable for the majority of people.

Where’s this going to end?

Oops wrong link - listening to LBC now saying 8 million households in the UK are in "fuel poverty".

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/07/britain-social-emergency-leaders-political-vacuum

www.theverge.com/2022/7/27/23280640/london-uk-electricity-blackouts-heatwave-import

I agree with you @BarbaraofSeville people should pay what they can afford rather than nothing. It’s a much better way of making a protest as you are paying what you can!

Someone I know is very happy wfh , but I doubt she'll want to in the winter having to pay to heat her home and run the electricity etc.
There will be many more costs for those who don't have offices to go to.
All adds to the government coffers with the vat they charge as well.

Is that now or following the October rise?

Well, according to Octupus, when i refused to agree to an increase, their reply was...
We understand that you want your direct debit to stay as it is at the moment, so it is not our main priority right now, our main priority is that you can afford other things like food and can get back on track soon....Everyone is supposed to be getting £400.00 from the government to help with bills due to the cost of living price rises so hopefully that helps you a fair bit

If enough people do similar, then the industry is going to have to look at its charging structure and the Government will be forced to take meaningful action.

We need to stop selling energy produced here on the international markets for starters.

This problem is very unlikely to go away, even if the Russians withdrew from Ukraine tomo, do you think they would re start gas supplies to Europe? that will only happen if we halted sanctions and Putin went.

@WinterMusings Thank you for your reply.

How old is DS? Any SEN?

9, suspected ASD (almost certain ND in some way), waiting for assessment. Forcing it would mean a meltdown, so not an option.

Have you seen the clear stick on film for windows? It's not that expensive & really helps with insulation.

Have looked into it, it's the frames that really suck the heat out and not sure, given the condition of them, how well anything would stick to them.

Look out for special deals on boilers, I think with the move to heat pumps, you'll get some decent deals and it will save you money, so it might not take too long to recoup the money spent.

We've been looking, but the placing of it is an issue, it really needs to be moved upstairs but that really bumps up the cost and involves pulling up floorboards. Looking at the possibility of just swapping out the old one - but we also need a new roof and we can't do both.

There will be tent cities in your local parks, like there was in the great American depression. Households with market rent and mortgages will not be able to pay unless they have family wealth to fall back on. Homes will be repossessed and there will be mass homelessness within a year IF there’s no government support.

If the Tories stay in power I can see the return of the poor houses. Not as bad as during the Victorian period, but certainly mass communal accommodation barracks for the very poor.

29% of households are in fuel poverty + huge price hike = mass homelessness and a surge in crime and excess deaths very quickly without sufficient government support.

The government can’t see what is coming and it’s mind boggling that we have such incompetents in government right now.

From the Guardian article, I posted.

Fuel poverty has traditionally been defined as when energy costs exceed 10% of a household’s net income. In the financial year 2019-20, just under 20% of UK households were in that category, according to recent research by the University of York’s Jonathan Bradshaw and Antonia Keung, and published by the Child Poverty Action Group. But their projection suggests that, without further measures – and even factoring in the universal £400 rebate – this figure is set to jump to well over 50% by the start of next year. In Northern Ireland, they reckon, 70% of households will be in fuel poverty; in Scotland, Wales and the north-west of England it will be about 60%. Fuel poverty, the research projects, will soon affect nearly 90% of single parents with two or more children. This kind of research, Prof Bradshaw told me, is complicated, and bound by the limits of official statistics: the basic point, he said, is to “show that this is going to be very bad unless something else happens”.

Cool. So if we go the energy isolationism route, you can say goodbye to all that American diesel and LNG we’re currently getting as they follow likewise. And they have people proposing the same idea in Congress right now.

That torpedoes Europe’s entire economy instantly.

At least they seem to be sticking with the same definition of fuel poverty so it can be charged.

Do you know the government has just altered the definition of fuel poverty to exclude all households with good EPC ratings?

That's the shit the opposition should be onto. It will mask and underplay the levels of fuel poverty right when we need clarity the most.

It’s the maximum amount you can be charged if you use exactly that amount of energy.

There is a cap on the standing charge and the unit rate, and if you use the specified amount of energy, the total bill will be no more than the headline figure. If you use more than the specified amount, the bill will be more than the headline figure.

I don’t know how else to explain it.

Unfortunately it’s time to think what’s more important, Ukraine or your energy bills, stop the sanctions on Russia and let them have Ukraine, ( if he stops there ) or have sky high energy prices, if the government nationalise energy, how would they afford to buy out or the shareholders?

There are going to be so many of us in fuel poverty. We're careful so low users compared to many, but looking like our own fuel bill could be 10% of our income and like many in our earnings bracket, there won't be any extra money from anywhere. I so feel for anyone on a lower income as there just won't be the flexibilty of "robbing Peter to pay Paul"

@baguettechick

I'm glad you're in a much better situation. I'd love to move to France (have always wanted to, but life...)

I could go & live in NZ (dual citizenship), but I was born in England & I'm rather fond of it, for all its problems & frankly NZ is having its issues as well.

I'm not sure that advising the average Brit 'to get out' is really that helpful, when a large percentage don't have anywhere else to go! Plus uprooting your entire life is not that easy when you have kids, 2 lots of parents, extended family & friends. That's without getting a job in a new country, in a language you don't speak/aren't fluent in.

DEEPLY envious of you being in France!! I'm usually in Provence over the summer, but decided to give it a miss this year (covid/travel problems,CoL etc etc) missing it a LOT!!

Completely agree, currently paying £128 (up from £88 this time last year) and lost our supplier last October. I remember how I felt then and we managed to fix our current rate to November 2023 but we’re already talking about the measures we can take. We live in a modest new house, that is seemingly well insulated, but I’m already looking at a second job to give us a financial cushion in case things get really bad.

I don’t mind reigning in our spending, but it saddens me that children are missing out on days out, meals out, family holidays etc. of course, they’re luxuries, but those experiences are priceless and create memories that last a lifetime. I am feeling increasingly bitter that the rich get richer and the remaining 95% are struggling or starting to feel the pinch.

The government don’t seem to care, the response has been woeful so far. Where will all be in six months time? I dread to think, but I hope it’s not a harsh winter. I daren't overthink the situation too much because the outcomes are bleak for too many

If the Tories stay in power I can see the return of the poor houses. Not as bad as during the Victorian period, but certainly mass communal accommodation barracks for the very poor.

I've seen this suggested in this very website in the last week.

"A secure place, like a hospital, for the unemployed, sick and disabled. They're not allowed to leave unless they have meaningful employment..."
I believe is how they phrased it. What a sickening idea.

Fuck the shareholders?

I mean, we don't want to fuck over Ukraine (do we?). We shouldn't want to fuck over the poorest people in the UK.

Someone's got to get fucked over. I think the 'gold plated' pension investments might take a hit here, which is why both Tories and Labour have gone quiet on it, as it would affect both private and old school public sector pensions.

@Nat6999

I'm sorry to hear that you're so worried. (Sorry for you disability & houseboundness too, but I knew that already from other threads x).

Have you made any enquiries about going into a prepay meter? People have said that with prices the way they are, it's a comparable price now & at least that way you can't get into debt.

Ask Venezuela how well it goes when you seize by gov’t fiat the infrastructure of private enterprise.

I cant pay 4k, there is no magic money tree

I can just avoid absorb the cost but i’m thinking about budgets at work and I don’t think where I work can stretch to the enormous cost of heating offices come the new year. I’m expecting redundancies.

TBH I think it's the people who are very elderly and retired and on only state pensions who are going to be hit badly.

The state pension, without pension credit (top ups) is less than £9K pa. So these fuel bills could amount to 50% of their income. Council tax even for a single person is £2K+pa in some areas even for a small house.

Some retired people get disability support but if they are healthy 80 yr olds, they don't. They get the winter fuel allowance but it won't go far.

Unlike younger people they don't have the chance to work or increase their income.

As an average….that’s exactly what that means

Our bills will be a lot less than that, at least over the next year, due to a combination of decisions made over the past couple of years:-

— switched to an EV

• got on an EV tariff, just recently fixed for the next 12 months


• moved to a new build with a high level of insulation and other energy saving features


• installed solar panels and battery, and can charge battery on EV cheap rate during winter


• moved to gas tracker tariff but with a cap which is lower than current Ofgem price cap


• Have been applying various energy-saving measures to reduce usage

Some of these decisions were carefully thought out, others were just bloody lucky.

I think we will be OK, despite the other bills which are rising relentlessly. I am starting to worry about my Mum - late eighties, lives alone, likes the heating up high and to use her tumble dryer, runs 2 fridge freezers etc. I expect her usage will be above average. She has a reasonable pension but basically no savings. So if I’m right about her usage and Cornwall Insight are right about their predictions, she could be spending 20% of her income on fuel even if she does manage to cut down a bit.