Page 17 | Friend didn't want me to talk to her about my upsetting personal stuff

Sparklybutold · 2022-08-07T23:32:48+00:00

Friend staying for the weekend. I experienced an extremely toxic and abusive childhood filled with suicide, murder, severe mental illness, premature death, all forms of abuse, the list goes on. This is a relatively new friendship so we are getting to know each other so naturally stuff about my childhood comes up. Later on in the day when the conversation swayed that way again she commented along the lines how my stories are just so sad - I asked whether she preferred I stopped, she said yes - I did. I was left feeling hurt, confused, invalidated but also kinda empathised. The stories are awful and just so sad, so much so that part of me switches off from them and I struggle to believe they're actually true. Alot of my experiences are also filled with shame and I was silenced so much, so to then be silenced again because it's too much? This experience makes me question how can I be close with this person if she can't tolerate the not so nice parts of me? Is this reasonable? I couldn't imagine switching someone off like this?

TedMullins · 08/08/2022 11:19

wellhelloitsme · 08/08/2022 11:15

Quite.

I actually feel quite shocked that someone who has been through the same would speak to me that way.

@TedMullins I'm sorry you were also raped, it's an horrific experience and I'm pleased you feel you've worked through some of the trauma.

Maybe if you were 'courteous' you'd have said similar to me as a fellow victim rather than telling me that you would only accept my boundaries if I asked for them in the right way and if I didn't I would be self absorbed.

I would suggest reading back this thread when you're calmer and thinking about why you've behaved that way to other people who have suffered trauma.

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Seriously, if I started talking about rape (which I wouldn’t just randomly bring up, but let’s say it was relevant) and you said something like ‘stop talking about it I don’t want to hear it’ in a brusque tone, why would I be in the wrong for finding that rude and dismissive? How am I supposed to instinctively know it’s because you’re a rape survivor and not just a dick? “This is a bit of an upsetting conversation, I don’t mean to dismiss your experience but can we move on?” Fine, polite. Surely you can see there’s a difference?

TedMullins · 08/08/2022 11:20

Onandupw · 08/08/2022 11:08

@TedMullins youre being a dick right now on this thread. Hth.

Someone disagreeing with you doesn’t make them a dick. Hth.

TedMullins · 08/08/2022 11:22

Astitch · 08/08/2022 11:09

There is no "trumps" - what an awful outlook to have.

You sound like the type of person boundaries are needed for, as you believe you can inflict upon other people because your needs "trump" someone else's. They don't.

This is unhealthy and I highly suggest therapy to work through this.

I would never expect anyone to listen to me talking about the awful things I've been through - I would consider that abusing/using your friends. Pay a therapist.

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I’ve had lots thanks. I’ve never been happier or more secure. My friends are incredibly supportive and I’m very lucky to have them and I give the same back in return.

wellhelloitsme · 08/08/2022 11:23

TedMullins · 08/08/2022 11:13

Maybe if everyone just calmed down and accepted a difference of opinion and stopped throwing names at me like abuser and narcissist I wouldn’t have to keep responding and talking about myself. Okay, I don’t have to but I’ve got a quiet morning at work and I’m procrastinating.

People who don’t want to talk about or hear about trauma are absolutely entitled to lead their life that way. I actually have no interest in trying to change their opinion. Crack on. But that’s not how I operate and I’m lucky enough to be surrounded by equally open people where we can share things and support each other.

You might not like the fact I think it’s self-absorbed to demand someone stops sharing, or that I don’t go around assuming someone might have trauma they haven’t told me about. That’s fine! I don’t expect everyone to like me and that isn’t my goal in life. I probably wouldn’t like you either. It doesn’t matter. I respect your approach to bottling up trauma works for you. It doesn’t for me and we wouldn’t be friends. But I deserve the same respect in return.

Not wanting to discuss trauma with everyone who discussed theirs isn't the same as bottling it up. I discuss my trauma with my partner, close friends and mum.

Your snarky comments along the lines of 'well if you want to bottle things up, go for it' is so dismissive.

People process trauma differently. The fact I don't want to discuss mine with people I don't know we'll isn't me bottling it up. It's me having boundaries that work for me and have helped me to move on with my life in a healthy way.

You've dismissed practically all other trauma survivors on this thread and shown no empathy to any of them. You can't police other peoples trauma related self care or tell them they are bottling things up just because they only discuss it with a few people in their life.

TedMullins · 08/08/2022 11:27

wellhelloitsme · 08/08/2022 11:23

Not wanting to discuss trauma with everyone who discussed theirs isn't the same as bottling it up. I discuss my trauma with my partner, close friends and mum.

Your snarky comments along the lines of 'well if you want to bottle things up, go for it' is so dismissive.

People process trauma differently. The fact I don't want to discuss mine with people I don't know we'll isn't me bottling it up. It's me having boundaries that work for me and have helped me to move on with my life in a healthy way.

You've dismissed practically all other trauma survivors on this thread and shown no empathy to any of them. You can't police other peoples trauma related self care or tell them they are bottling things up just because they only discuss it with a few people in their life.

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JFC. What more do you want? I’m happy for you and others like you to live whatever way works for you. It wouldn’t work for me and we probably wouldn’t get on irl. It’s not my responsibility to make myself acceptable to everyone I meet. Whatever happened to agreeing to disagree and accepting people have different approaches?

wellhelloitsme · 08/08/2022 11:27

@TedMullins

I don't want to engage with you any more.

You haven't been 'courteous' enough to show any empathy to a fellow rape survivor who extended theirs to you and said they're sorry you've been through it.

You've merailed the thread and now driven off a trauma victim because of your aggressive posts with zero empathy.

Congratulations.

I'll leave other people with more patience to speak to you.

One suggestion before I go though - if you have been through trauma and respect the fact that having been through it is incredibly difficult, acknowledging other people's trauma when they share it (which is what I did earlier) is a good place to start when it comes to being the 'listener'.

You said the 'listener' should respect the trauma survivor's lived experience and needs. Practice what you preach.

MaryBlighthouse · 08/08/2022 11:29

You see it too when you're bereaved or someone close to you has a serious illness. The number of people who simply avoid mentioning it or even responding if you mention it in passing is astonishing

This is unfair. Some people simply go into a shock/ startle reaction. Its not that they don't care, their brain freezes and they literally have no words in their heads to speak. Getting out of the blue, out of context news like that can really throw people into that freeze response, when news has overwhelmed them. Its not a chosen reaction they have.

Leaving those people aside, I always used to think that when someone was bereaved etc. you had to say something rather than fear saying the wrong thing. But having seen threads here when people completely lambast people in RL for saying what seemed to be quite innocuous things (such as 'sorry for your loss'), I have re-thought that. I now see why some people say nothing for fear of saying something that could cause offence.

Most people are not being arseholes, they are trying to do what they think is the right thing. They might not be what the person they are with wants, but its probably what they think is the right thing to do.

TedMullins · 08/08/2022 11:30

wellhelloitsme · 08/08/2022 11:27

@TedMullins

I don't want to engage with you any more.

You haven't been 'courteous' enough to show any empathy to a fellow rape survivor who extended theirs to you and said they're sorry you've been through it.

You've merailed the thread and now driven off a trauma victim because of your aggressive posts with zero empathy.

Congratulations.

I'll leave other people with more patience to speak to you.

One suggestion before I go though - if you have been through trauma and respect the fact that having been through it is incredibly difficult, acknowledging other people's trauma when they share it (which is what I did earlier) is a good place to start when it comes to being the 'listener'.

You said the 'listener' should respect the trauma survivor's lived experience and needs. Practice what you preach.

Well you didn’t exactly start off on a very empathetic foot with me, did you? Of course I’m sorry it happened to you. That doesn’t change the fact that our approaches to trauma are incompatible and the way I choose to deal with it and live my life is as worthy of respect and acceptance as yours.

ilyx · 08/08/2022 11:33

@TedMullins You sound like hard work

SleepingStandingUp · 08/08/2022 11:35

@TedMullins And imagine if a suicidal person reached out to someone who said ‘sorry, I really can’t listen to this, I find it too traumatising’ then they went and topped themselves. No, it wouldn’t be the person’s fault, but it’s a depressing world we live in when so many people think that’s an acceptable response.
So instead they listen, repress their own triggered emotions because they want to be a good friend and don't want to dump all their triggered stuff on the suicidal friend then go home and take their own life because it was too much. And by your own words that isn't an issue because the speaker matters more, people should share their trauma if they want to be excused listening to yours, etc

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 08/08/2022 11:35

10HailMarys · 08/08/2022 11:15

I think the fact that your friend has actually mentioned this, and clearly finds it distressing, suggests that you are talking about things a lot more and in a lot more detail than perhaps you think you are. It doesn't sound to me like you're just mentioning things in passing 'for context', however much it might feel that way to you.

In your follow-up posts you say that you don't think it's fair that you have to self-censor or be silent about things and that you had years of having to hide everything so don't see why you should have to hide things now as well. It's understandable that you feel that way, but it does also come across as if you want a reaction when you mention these things. If someone is shocked or saddened when you mention something you've been through, that's validating your own feelings about it and evoking sympathy and reassuring you that yes, these were awful things to experience. Again, that's understandable. But you also need to consider that other people are individuals in their own right, and they are not there to validate you, or ease your anger/shame. You have no idea what might be in your friend's past. She clearly finds certain subjects upsetting, and there could be all sorts of reasons for that. You seem to feel that it's tough shit if other people find your experiences hard to hear about, because you actually had to go through them and therefore it's your right to share them - and yes, again, that feeling is understandable. But it's also not fair. You had distressing experiences, and now it's almost as if you resent the fact that other people haven't and want them to feel some of what you felt by talking about it a a lot.

Your posts are all very much about your feelings and what you want. Your friend also has feelings and she has every right to set some boundaries in what she does and doesn't feel comfortable talking about it.

Agree with this. You seem to have done some very important - and no doubt very difficult - work on processing your own trauma, OP, and that's commendable. But you also seem to assume that your friend has no traumas of her own. Perhaps her boundaries are there for a reason?

My family has experience of severe physical child abuse. I was not personally a victim, but it has had repercussions on us all. I have told maybe 5 people ever some of what happened, and nobody knows all of it. If you started talking to me about your own traumas, I would gently deflect, to protect myself.

dreamingbohemian · 08/08/2022 11:36

But Ted, do you genuinely think you are showing respect to other survivors on this thread?

You literally said your approach to trauma is the morally sound one. That those of us who don't discuss it are just 'bottling it up'. That you 'think less of people' who don't share your approach. That you refuse to consider other people might also have trauma unless they tell you.

I don't think anyone here really cares how you deal with your own trauma, we don't even know you. You do you! But you are being very condescending and, dare I say, discourteous to those of us who handle things differently.

I don't consider myself morally superior because of my approach. But you clearly do. That's the difference, and that's what people disagree with.

Original poster

Sparklybutold · 08/08/2022 11:36

Wow this took off from 2 hours ago. I will try and read everyone who took the time to reply - so thank you.

I thought it polite to post an update. I spoke with my friend this morning to just check she was OK and apologise for any upset or harn I had caused. She reassured me she had lovely time but in the past with othrfriends had felt overwhelmed and not said stop. She appreciated the fact I recognised her obvious anxiety at what I was saying and that she felt safe to say yes, stop. I honoured this. Emotionally for me however, immediately after I felt shamed and then angry (not because of her, but because of my trauma which then I projected on to her), but after a good nights sleep and talking to my friend this morning I certainly wont be using her response yesterday as any indication of the health or continuation of our relationship, if anything I feel it's only enhanced it as both of us have been allowed for some degree of honesty and apreciation of each others boundaries...

Apologise as I have to go (2 year old). Will be back!

OP posts:

shreddednips · 08/08/2022 11:38

TedMullins · 08/08/2022 11:15

You don't seem to think anyone else's trauma is valid and just told me that if I said to someone I'm sorry but I don't feel able to discuss the topic of rape as it's too raw and triggering, it is only acceptable if I disclose my own trauma, give a reason you deem valid in a tone you deem valid.

thats absolutely not what I said. I said there are ways and means of saying you don’t want to discuss something and having trauma doesn’t mean you can’t be courteous about it.

But OP's friend was quite polite IMO. She didn't say 'I don't want to talk about this.' She got upset when OP was disclosing, and then said yes please when OP asked if she didn't want to hear any more. I assume if OP hadn't asked, she wouldn't have said anything at all. That should really be enough to infer that the new friend MIGHT have been through something similar and finding it triggering. Saying any more would require her to as good as disclose her own trauma, which she might not want to do. Or perhaps just not until the friendship is more established and she's built trust with OP.

dreamingbohemian · 08/08/2022 11:39

That's a wonderful update OP. Sounds like the beginning of a beautiful friendship!

wellhelloitsme · 08/08/2022 11:39

Sparklybutold · 08/08/2022 11:36

Wow this took off from 2 hours ago. I will try and read everyone who took the time to reply - so thank you.

I thought it polite to post an update. I spoke with my friend this morning to just check she was OK and apologise for any upset or harn I had caused. She reassured me she had lovely time but in the past with othrfriends had felt overwhelmed and not said stop. She appreciated the fact I recognised her obvious anxiety at what I was saying and that she felt safe to say yes, stop. I honoured this. Emotionally for me however, immediately after I felt shamed and then angry (not because of her, but because of my trauma which then I projected on to her), but after a good nights sleep and talking to my friend this morning I certainly wont be using her response yesterday as any indication of the health or continuation of our relationship, if anything I feel it's only enhanced it as both of us have been allowed for some degree of honesty and apreciation of each others boundaries...

Apologise as I have to go (2 year old). Will be back!

You sound lovely OP and so does your friend, you've both dealt with that really kindly and in a mutually caring way. I'm really glad.

Sorry your thread was merailed by one poster, I hope that it's clear people are deeply troubled by their approach rather than yours so most of the posts aren't even directed at you!

SleepingStandingUp · 08/08/2022 11:39

@Sparklybutold I'm really glad you both talked today and processed instead of reacted. It sounds like a good friendship.

Onandupw · 08/08/2022 11:39

Oh that’s great OP sounds good!!

shame is awful to shift.

you will find that the thread was hijacked….but there is some helpful stuff in there!

Astitch · 08/08/2022 11:39

wellhelloitsme · 08/08/2022 11:27

@TedMullins

I don't want to engage with you any more.

You haven't been 'courteous' enough to show any empathy to a fellow rape survivor who extended theirs to you and said they're sorry you've been through it.

You've merailed the thread and now driven off a trauma victim because of your aggressive posts with zero empathy.

Congratulations.

I'll leave other people with more patience to speak to you.

One suggestion before I go though - if you have been through trauma and respect the fact that having been through it is incredibly difficult, acknowledging other people's trauma when they share it (which is what I did earlier) is a good place to start when it comes to being the 'listener'.

You said the 'listener' should respect the trauma survivor's lived experience and needs. Practice what you preach.

Very well said.

To be honest, I think this poster is purely after attention and not as genuine as they're desperately trying to portray. Being so void of empathy, I wonder if they've even been through anything themselves. Just a keyboard warrior!

Branleuse · 08/08/2022 11:39

Its fine for her to have strict boundaries about only talking about pleasant and nice stuff. Lots of people are like that. We cant all get along. Maybe you just didnt know her well enough to invite for the weekend.
I have several friends who i wouldnt discuss deep personal stuff with, and several that i could talk about anything with.

Neither you or the other woman are wrong. Youre just different

Inthesameboatatmo · 08/08/2022 11:39

TedMullins · 08/08/2022 11:13

Maybe if everyone just calmed down and accepted a difference of opinion and stopped throwing names at me like abuser and narcissist I wouldn’t have to keep responding and talking about myself. Okay, I don’t have to but I’ve got a quiet morning at work and I’m procrastinating.

People who don’t want to talk about or hear about trauma are absolutely entitled to lead their life that way. I actually have no interest in trying to change their opinion. Crack on. But that’s not how I operate and I’m lucky enough to be surrounded by equally open people where we can share things and support each other.

You might not like the fact I think it’s self-absorbed to demand someone stops sharing, or that I don’t go around assuming someone might have trauma they haven’t told me about. That’s fine! I don’t expect everyone to like me and that isn’t my goal in life. I probably wouldn’t like you either. It doesn’t matter. I respect your approach to bottling up trauma works for you. It doesn’t for me and we wouldn’t be friends. But I deserve the same respect in return.

@Tedmullins.
You have shown absolutely no respect to anyone here at all. Because people don't openly talk about their past doesn't for one minute mean they are "bottling it up!". Most people are private about these things and most people are not over sharers and would avoid an over sharer and that is also their right . You don't need to dismiss them because they don't see your views

Wouldloveanother · 08/08/2022 11:41

It all sounds incredibly intense. Glad you sorted it though.

Astitch · 08/08/2022 11:41

Sparklybutold · 08/08/2022 11:36

Wow this took off from 2 hours ago. I will try and read everyone who took the time to reply - so thank you.

I thought it polite to post an update. I spoke with my friend this morning to just check she was OK and apologise for any upset or harn I had caused. She reassured me she had lovely time but in the past with othrfriends had felt overwhelmed and not said stop. She appreciated the fact I recognised her obvious anxiety at what I was saying and that she felt safe to say yes, stop. I honoured this. Emotionally for me however, immediately after I felt shamed and then angry (not because of her, but because of my trauma which then I projected on to her), but after a good nights sleep and talking to my friend this morning I certainly wont be using her response yesterday as any indication of the health or continuation of our relationship, if anything I feel it's only enhanced it as both of us have been allowed for some degree of honesty and apreciation of each others boundaries...

Apologise as I have to go (2 year old). Will be back!

What a great update OP!

Really pleased for you. Hope it's the start of a lovely friendship.

Rheia1983 · 08/08/2022 11:43

OP, I understand where you're coming from.

Having had a horrendous childhood and gone through the (shitty) path of coming to terms with this and learning to build relationships in adulthood, my experience is that lots of people do not have the capacity or willingness to listen to or have conversations about abuse and trauma and the consequences thereof.

Connection and understanding on a deeper level is hard, I find. Yet, I've also found it easier with people who have had similar experiences and can relate; we speak the same language.

I hope you find people in your life who speak the same language. I also hope you find peace.

Mississipi71 · 08/08/2022 11:44

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 08/08/2022 02:06

OP - one thing you can do is to talk to the Samaritans.

They are listeners who have chosen to be there for you and will be able to cope with what you have to say. (No-one will listen to you as well as they do!) You are exactly the sort of person they want to pick up that phone for.

Talking is odd - it helps you straighten things out in your own mind but also helps you put really disturbing distressing things away. I know what you mean about sometimes feeling as if it couldn't be true.

Putting the awful things into words contains them and gives you control over them.

It can take a few tellings to work though.

When you call the Samaritans, you usually speak to a different person each time - so you can work through it all and not feel you are over-burdening anyone.

Samaritans were great with me. I cannot rate them enough. Absolutely lovely people. No rush, no pressure, just there to listen.