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Original poster

ATM withdrawal wasn’t me!

180 replies

SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 18:38

Hi all,

I’m looking for some advice as I can’t find much online that matches my current situation.

Whilst at work last Sunday I noticed two cash withdrawals at cash points had been made on my card. I immediately panicked as they totalled £300.
I contacted the bank and cancelled the card and they opened a dispute with the fraud team.

This is where my problem starts. The bank are refusing to refund me as they say it can’t be fraudulent. They said the transactions were made with my chip and pin card which can’t be cloned and whoever took the money used a cashpoint so must have known my pin.
I realised the last time I’d used the card was in Aldi the day before using chip and pin but these withdrawals weren’t made until the following day.
The location of the cashpoint is 30 minutes from my home however at the time I was an hour away from the location at work which I can prove.
Nobody uses my card or knows my pin but they’re adamant that it is not fraud and will not refund.

Has anyone been through something similar? Is it really impossible for cloning to happen on a chip and pin card? It seems like a complete mystery yet I’m being made out to be a criminal and I’m currently £300 down.

TIA

OP posts:
MRex · 06/08/2022 18:42

I'm not sure why they are so sure the card wasn't cloned. Be clear with them that you have never shared the card nor pin, then go ahead and report to the police. Ask them to get photos of the person using the machine, that would show it isn't you.

Nimblesandbimbles · 06/08/2022 18:46

Who do you bank with OP? I only ask because I have had a number of issues with fraud concerning my debit card & Barclays have always been really helpful. They have never doubted me even when they might have had cause to. So I’m surprised your bank are taking this line with you. Like pp said there would be ways of proving it wasn’t you using the ATM. What’s odd is that the cash point was only 30 minutes away. When it’s happened to me it’s often been in another area so it seems out of character & more likely to be accepted as fraud.

Original poster
SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 19:06

Thank you for your replies. It’s starling bank (who I will be moving from very shortly after all this).

They said it can’t be cloned as the chip in the card is unique and they can see it was my card. They said you can’t clone the chips in cards these days.

What is more infuriating is that up until yesterday when I tearfully called them after receiving the final decision not to refund, is that they couldn’t tell me the location of at the ATM. They said they couldn’t trace it and couldn’t see a location on the transaction which I found so hard to believe. Then when I called yesterday in tears, the customer service agent gave me the postcode which is 30 minutes from my house.

I tried to raise it with the police but they said it was an issue for action fraud UK. I reported it to them and they said it can’t be classed as a crime.
I just keep reaching dead ends!

OP posts:
AlumhurstRoad · 06/08/2022 19:14

Hello, this sounds so frustrating. Not sure if you have mentioned this, but was the card that you cancelled still in your possession?

MRex · 06/08/2022 19:29

SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 19:06

Thank you for your replies. It’s starling bank (who I will be moving from very shortly after all this).

They said it can’t be cloned as the chip in the card is unique and they can see it was my card. They said you can’t clone the chips in cards these days.

What is more infuriating is that up until yesterday when I tearfully called them after receiving the final decision not to refund, is that they couldn’t tell me the location of at the ATM. They said they couldn’t trace it and couldn’t see a location on the transaction which I found so hard to believe. Then when I called yesterday in tears, the customer service agent gave me the postcode which is 30 minutes from my house.

I tried to raise it with the police but they said it was an issue for action fraud UK. I reported it to them and they said it can’t be classed as a crime.
I just keep reaching dead ends!

It wouldn't be cost effective to try to clone a chip. A cloned card with an altered magnetic strip to identify it as a non-chip card is possible. Is it a little dispensing ATM in a shop or a major bank?The transaction timing might also be incorrect, could have been delayed confirmation with someone having taken your card and used it with your pin overnight (presuming they have seen you enter your pin). Do you have anyone in your life who might have used the card?

I think the most reasonable follow-up is for you to locate the ATM owner and request a photo of who used it at the timings given.

StoneofDestiny · 06/08/2022 19:35

If it wasn't you your money has been stolen. I'd insist in getting a photograph of who used your card. I'd escalate the complaint to the Ombudsman.

megacat · 06/08/2022 19:38

Yes this happened to me, and it was my ex who had taken my bank card.

Are you 100% certain the card was in your possession at the time of the withdrawals?

ny20005 · 06/08/2022 19:50

It's up to you to prove it wasn't you.

Is the card still in your possession & are you 110% that it was always in your possession

NumberTheory · 06/08/2022 19:58

Unfortunately, even if you find the ATM, the owner won’t give you a picture of whoever made the transaction because of privacy rules. It would need to be some sort of investigation by the bank or police.

Very frustrating that the police won’t do anything. Have you tried going back to them and reporting it as theft instead of fraud? (Suspect this still won’t work, but might be worth a try). It sounds like it must have been someone close to you - either at home or at work - so if they could get the photo they might be able to identify who it was.

I would try the Banking Ombudsman to try and push for a refund or, at least, more information. But also your MP as it seems you’re being given the run around by the authorities with none of them wanting to investigate. Yet you have had money taken from your account and there are leads that could be followed up on but no way for you to do that yourself and no help from those that can.

ClareBlue · 06/08/2022 20:03

You have to be completely certain no one had your card. Even those you would completely trust. It happens all the time that someone in a family sees the pin when next to you or you told them it once or you have it written some where they know or find. Or even guess it because it's a birthday or always the same.
If it is cloned they would have cleared the account before you stopped it. Have they taken daily max before you stopped it or lower amounts. If not max then it is vastly more likely to be close to home, unfortunately.
But if you can absolutely rule all that out you need to escalate.
Just be mindful if you report it as a crime and CCTV identify a relative or friend they will be prosecuted, irrespective of you wanting to drop it, if you in fact do, so you need to be very sure.

Leftbutcameback · 06/08/2022 20:06

This really isn't good enough - I would try your MP and also use social media (twitter). If you know you had your card on you then keep pushing.

Leftbutcameback · 06/08/2022 20:07

And ask Starling for their formal complaints process. Put everything in writing even if that means a recorded delivery letter.

ClareBlue · 06/08/2022 20:09

And that is why it is not being considered a crime because 99 perc of withdrawals not max daily are people known to card holder, not cloning or whatever. Just using the card without permission. It us still, of course, stealing from you.

Elleherd · 06/08/2022 20:10

TBH I know sod all about this stuff, but one of my tecy dc's responded that there are ways and suggested reading: www.kaspersky.com/blog/chip-n-pin-cloning/21502/

ToHelenaHandcart · 06/08/2022 20:12

My card was ‘used’ in Italy 20 min after I’d used it in East London, so it’s possible.
HSBC though just put the money back
in my account within about 60 seconds of calling. They didn’t quibble at all.
What is even weirder mine was an unused new card, no chance to clone it. I’ve always wondered if it was some sort of internal fraud.

Campolini · 06/08/2022 20:13

Raise a complaint and escalate to ombudsman.

The bank are being ridiculous.

ATM's can be fitted with skimming devices

And also ATM's use the magnetic chip to conduct transactions not the chip so the chip comment is irrelevant.

You need to speak to a manager and discuss this.

Campolini · 06/08/2022 20:13

Magnetic strip not chip sorry **

Original poster
SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 20:16

Thanks for all of your messages. I honestly don’t know who it could be. I don’t have anyone that would steal it. I was working alone on Sunday and didn’t see anyone on Saturday afternoon onwards which was the last time I had the card.
I initially thought the card was still in my possession but I realised it was only the linked card on my account that I have which is just used for shopping and you have to top up with money from the main account.

OP posts:
Original poster
SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 20:18

I have raised it with the ombudsman so I will wait to see what they say but I’m aware it’s a lengthier process than just the bank refunding me.

I don’t know anything about how cards can or can’t be cloned unfortunately so I’m really in the dark on the possibilities of how this could happen

OP posts:
ohblowmedown · 06/08/2022 20:19

I initially thought the card was still in my possession but I realised it was only the linked card on my account that I have which is just used for shopping and you have to top up with money from the main account.

So are you saying the card is not in your possession?

GrazingSheep · 06/08/2022 20:19

So there are 2 cards on your account?

AlbaDT · 06/08/2022 20:21

So your card has been stolen? Or you’ve lost it at some point?

Original poster
SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 20:22

No I don’t have the card so I’m assuming I lost it or it was stolen.
I have my main debit card and then another debit card for the same account which is a “linked space” card. It says “shopping” on that card and you have to move money from the main account into the shopping space via the app to be able to use it.
The only card I now have in my possession is the linked shopping card

OP posts:
luxxlisbon · 06/08/2022 20:23

So actually are you saying you don’t have your card, so it was your actual card used to withdraw the money and it wasn’t clones? And the person obviously had your PIN if they went to an atm.

The more likely scenario is that this is someone you know. Do you live alone?
If someone stole or cloned your cards it would be purchases, they wouldn’t be able to withdraw cash without your pin.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 06/08/2022 20:25

So your card was stolen?

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