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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

ATM withdrawal wasn’t me!

180 replies

SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 18:38

Hi all,

I’m looking for some advice as I can’t find much online that matches my current situation.

Whilst at work last Sunday I noticed two cash withdrawals at cash points had been made on my card. I immediately panicked as they totalled £300.
I contacted the bank and cancelled the card and they opened a dispute with the fraud team.

This is where my problem starts. The bank are refusing to refund me as they say it can’t be fraudulent. They said the transactions were made with my chip and pin card which can’t be cloned and whoever took the money used a cashpoint so must have known my pin.
I realised the last time I’d used the card was in Aldi the day before using chip and pin but these withdrawals weren’t made until the following day.
The location of the cashpoint is 30 minutes from my home however at the time I was an hour away from the location at work which I can prove.
Nobody uses my card or knows my pin but they’re adamant that it is not fraud and will not refund.

Has anyone been through something similar? Is it really impossible for cloning to happen on a chip and pin card? It seems like a complete mystery yet I’m being made out to be a criminal and I’m currently £300 down.

TIA

OP posts:
Original poster
SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 20:26

Yes this is what the bank are saying. I just have no clue who could know my pin.
I live alone except my 2 year old and a cat neither of which I think would be able to use a cash machine haha.
Nobody has broken into my house, car or otherwise and I don’t lend the card out.

OP posts:
alnawire · 06/08/2022 20:34

Right so the card was stolen and someone used it to withdraw money. So what you are saying to the bank is incorrect, it's no wonder they are not going to help you as it was your card as they say. You needed to report it stolen. What made you think about card cloning when theft was obvious?

Ontomatopea · 06/08/2022 20:42

Someone might have pinched it off you at aldi after shoulder surfing you putting your pin in. Can you remember what time you were there? I don't know if they can check the footage for you?

Hiddenvoice · 06/08/2022 20:43

Your card was stolen, can you remember the last time you used it? Is it possible you left it in a chip and pin machine and someone seen your pin?
I’d report it to the bank fraud department and report your card as stolen. You’ll get a crime reference number which you can then pass onto the bank. Best bet is the police checking cctv but this doesn’t happen often.
The bank seem to be going down the route of you potentially giving someone else the card and then reporting the money missing to create fraud. Sadly people do this all the time, they have someone ‘steal their card’ take the money, report the fraud to the bank who then provide money to the customer so the person ends up gaining money. Obviously you haven’t done this but the bank see it as up to you to prove that to them. Since the person has used your pin, they are less likely to help you as they will feel you’ve told someone the pin. Best bet is reporting the card as missing to the police. Have you had anyone in your house lately or left your bag unattended?

Ontomatopea · 06/08/2022 20:43

I'm so so confused. Why do you think your card has been cloned? You don't have the card right? So it's been nicked.

Carrotmum · 06/08/2022 20:44

A friend of mine used to work for a bank she was dealing with this sort of issue on a daily basis. 90% if not 99% of the time it was someone known to the card holder who used their card. The fall out from these instances were often devastating to the card holder. Often the thief would note the PIN number well in advance of actually taking the card so it didn’t seem linked they also might have to opportunity, being family, to return the card before it was missed.
The most upsetting she dealt with was a young mum whose ex came to her house to have contact with their child and it turned out that he would take her card out of her bag when she went out of the room, make an excuse to go to the shop for milk or some such and withdraw money using her card ( he knew her PIN from when they were together) then put it back in her bag. It took a while to sort that one out and the police were involved.

Hiddenvoice · 06/08/2022 20:44

I meant report it to police to get a crime reference number.

Astitch · 06/08/2022 20:49

It wasn't cloned, it was stolen. It was either a stranger who saw you enter your pin, or a friend/family member.

AlisonDonut · 06/08/2022 20:50

So you haven't got the card?

Can you look on your account to the time that you did last use your card? That card not the other one.

Original poster
SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 20:59

Sorry for the confusion everyone.

I initially reported it to the bank immediately as the notifications came through that a withdrawal had been made (I get notifications when there is any use on the card such as me purchasing something or a bill going out). Because I was so panicked they asked me if I still had the card and I said yes as I looked in my purse and saw my “card”. It wasn’t until later that I realised I only have my linked card and not my main card. This is why I initially thought it had been cloned.
I informed them straight away that I infact do not have my main card and only the linked one but their answer is the same.

OP posts:
Original poster
SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 21:01

I last used it in Aldi on the Saturday afternoon at 4pm. It was then on Sunday at 11.45am that the withdrawals were made.

OP posts:
DuchessofAnkh77 · 06/08/2022 21:17

Unfortunately, even if you find the ATM, the owner won’t give you a picture of whoever made the transaction because of privacy rules. It would need to be some sort of investigation by the bank or police.

Yes, but I had a very interesting conversation with the Halifax who said I had opened a current account and now was in debt....they refused to provide CCTV because "data protection" - my response? " but you are insisting this is me, therefore I give you permission to share my image with me and also the ID I used to open the account" That was 5 years ago, the debt was wiped immediately from my credit record and I have never heard from them again.

At the same time I also had a mobile phone debt, again they said I had to send it various proofs refused CCTV....same again... " you say this is me, prove it by showing me my image" "yes but data porteeectiooonnn...." "yes it's me though? you just said it was me, so I give you permission." ...silence.... "no but you say it's not you so data protection" "no, I'm now saying I want to see my picture" never heard from them again, credit file wiped etc etc.

sofa debt ( it was getting a bit boring by now!) delivered to an address in east London I have never lived in. They refused to send me the proofs used for the finance cos "data protection"...repeat ad infinitum! you get the drift!

If they say its you they CAN share everything as you give them permission!.

MRex · 06/08/2022 22:16

Ok. So a stolen card is a different matter, someone just needs to have seen your pin. Could have been from Aldi, or could be someone you know. If you used the shopping card in Aldi, when did you last use the main card?

Elsiid · 06/08/2022 22:37

They're not paying because you've given them the wrong information.

NumberTheory · 06/08/2022 22:44

If you know the card isn’t with you and have known since shortly after reporting it to the bank, why have you been talking about cloned cards at all?

I think you may have some problems with the bank trusting your version because our story is unclear and confusing. They probably see it as you changing your story each time they point out why it can’t be true to try and defraud them.

mumda · 06/08/2022 23:16

Subject access request is what's needed to obtain your data that they hold. Which can include an image of you.

PseudonymPolly · 06/08/2022 23:28

Subject access request is what's needed to obtain your data that they hold. Which can include an image of you

The bank won't have any CCTV image of the card being used, linked to ops account though. In this scenario a DSAR will achieve nothing.

Thatboymum · 07/08/2022 00:15

I work for a Main Street bank , please phone them and ask to speak to a manager as you want to make a complaint , express they’ve caused you “material distress” make it clear you do not have the bank card and that you need fraud to investigate this now, a police crime reference number would be very helpful , sadly with the bank we deal with hundreds on a weekly basis who try to say somebody withdrew money and it’s not them and we know that’s not possible unless cards been stolen in which case the fraud team must refund this but 90% of the time it’s a friend or child or family member who’s done it in which case we can’t and won’t do anything as it’s not our problem. And sadly so many people lie about it it makes the genuine people questionable. If you need any help in making a complaint or fraud claim you are welcome to speak to me directly and I will help with wording process etc.

Original poster
SingSweetNightingale · 07/08/2022 08:41

Thanks for all your messages.
I spoke about cloning as I originally thought I was still in possession of the card. Once I realised my mistake I let the bank know however their stance remains that it’s impossible it wasn’t me. Or like some of you say they’re assuming it’s someone who is close to me so still won’t pay out.

I have a reference from action fraud UK which I’ve given to them. For me, the location is key as I can prove I wasn’t there.

OP posts:
queenmeadhbh · 07/08/2022 08:59

SingSweetNightingale · 07/08/2022 08:41

Thanks for all your messages.
I spoke about cloning as I originally thought I was still in possession of the card. Once I realised my mistake I let the bank know however their stance remains that it’s impossible it wasn’t me. Or like some of you say they’re assuming it’s someone who is close to me so still won’t pay out.

I have a reference from action fraud UK which I’ve given to them. For me, the location is key as I can prove I wasn’t there.

OP, you still seem confused which I think has also led to the bank’s response.

how soon after reporting to the bank did you realise that in fact you didn’t have the card?

because your OP yesterday (Saturday) asks if it is really impossible to clone a card.
you said the transactions were last weekend.

so either you only realised that you didn’t have the card nearly a full week after reporting that you thought it must have been cloned, or, you realised before yesterday that you didn’t have the card but for some reason are persisting in talking about the possibility of cloning?!

when you told the bank that you were mistaken and the card was not in fact in your possession at the time of the fraudulent activity and still isn’t I.e. has been stolen, did you say just that or did you start talking about linked cards and “shopping” cards etc? That may also have muddied the waters.

the bottom line is your card has been stolen by someone who knew or who could work out your PIN.

venicebeachb · 07/08/2022 09:02

This has happened to someone I know and they didn’t have to jump through this many hoops.

common scam. You use your card and pin, the person watches, they then pickpocket your card. Now they know the pin and have the card

Getoff · 07/08/2022 09:13

I have a reference from action fraud UK which I’ve given to them. For me, the location is key as I can prove I wasn’t there.

Is the action fraud report relevant any more, now that you know the card was probably stolen? Do you not need to report theft to the police?

I did a quick google to see if action fraud investigate thefts, and the first page I found said they don't investigate anything. Presumably the normal police would investigate a theft?

queenmeadhbh · 07/08/2022 09:23

Getoff · 07/08/2022 09:13

I have a reference from action fraud UK which I’ve given to them. For me, the location is key as I can prove I wasn’t there.

Is the action fraud report relevant any more, now that you know the card was probably stolen? Do you not need to report theft to the police?

I did a quick google to see if action fraud investigate thefts, and the first page I found said they don't investigate anything. Presumably the normal police would investigate a theft?

Yes - that’s even more to the point than what I wrote - OP I think you are confusing matters by continuing to talk about this as fraud. It’s not fraud, they had the card - it’s theft!

Endlesslypatient82 · 07/08/2022 09:25

SingSweetNightingale · 06/08/2022 20:18

I have raised it with the ombudsman so I will wait to see what they say but I’m aware it’s a lengthier process than just the bank refunding me.

I don’t know anything about how cards can or can’t be cloned unfortunately so I’m really in the dark on the possibilities of how this could happen

Don’t waste your time

The ombudsman will kick this out

They said it can’t be cloned as the chip in the card is unique and they can see it was my card. They said you can’t clone the chips in cards these days.

correct

Endlesslypatient82 · 07/08/2022 09:26

YOUR card was used.

either by you or someone else.

And if someone else - they oddly enough returned it to you! Ie someone who has access to your wallet (and is a bit thick)