ATM withdrawal wasn’t me!

[SingSweetNightingale]

Hi all,

I’m looking for some advice as I can’t find much online that matches my current situation.

Whilst at work last Sunday I noticed two cash withdrawals at cash points had been made on my card. I immediately panicked as they totalled £300.
I contacted the bank and cancelled the card and they opened a dispute with the fraud team.

This is where my problem starts. The bank are refusing to refund me as they say it can’t be fraudulent. They said the transactions were made with my chip and pin card which can’t be cloned and whoever took the money used a cashpoint so must have known my pin.
I realised the last time I’d used the card was in Aldi the day before using chip and pin but these withdrawals weren’t made until the following day.
The location of the cashpoint is 30 minutes from my home however at the time I was an hour away from the location at work which I can prove.
Nobody uses my card or knows my pin but they’re adamant that it is not fraud and will not refund.

Has anyone been through something similar? Is it really impossible for cloning to happen on a chip and pin card? It seems like a complete mystery yet I’m being made out to be a criminal and I’m currently £300 down.

TIA

Well yes, from their point of view you lied to them about the card still being in your possession, despite them knowing that it was that card which had been used to make the withdrawal.

You need to now write to them setting out the actual facts, making it a proper complaint, and give them time to investigate and respond.

Someone has your card and your pin, this is not the bank’s fault. You did not report it stolen. This is not the bank’s fault.

Despite this they will likely repay you the lost money if you get your story straight and make an accurate complaint.

Yes I feel mean being harsh and I do feel sorry her money has been taken. But it’s no use to the OP if she knows fine her card hasn’t been cloned but keeps going on about it. OP knows she does not have her main card, she knew before she posted, so she knows someone else has her card. They did not need clone it!

In addition, if she had been more up front with the bank, she may have had a refund already.

You knew before your first post that it was stolen bit cloned, yet posted about cloning.

Why?

You claim that you have reported it to the ombudsman, but this is not how the ombudsman works, as they would have made clear if you really had contacted them.

i think you are rehearsing your story and that you know full-well how the money was withdrawn.

No money on the card, has never used it, but carries it around with her all the time…

Be kind?

People are asking Op to clarify. People are asking why she is asking about cloning when that's not what has happened. That's not unkind.

I’d put money on this happening

the OP’s DP (who she previously has posted has lied to her many many times about money and is in horrific debt) nicked the money.

The Op knows it is him.

she is desperate for the money back but knows no chance from him.

so she has orchestrated this lie in the hope she will be refunded.

you won’t be OP. But you may well be arrested for attempting to defraud your bank.

@mnhq please could you post the warning you put on threads about only giving what you can afford to lose.

The Rizen was a diabolical British horror film

nice one op

They’d have to reword because that makes bugger all sense

I have passed it to the ombudsman as their job is to review decisions and this is the only way I can now receive my refund

Who gave you the final decision? It sounds like a response from fraud, not a complaint outcome.

You can't simply 'pass it to the ombudsman'. It doesn't work like that.

The ombudsman are there to independently investigate complaint outcomes - you need to raise a complaint with the bank first and receive your final response letter with right of escalation to FOS. The bank have 8 weeks in which to investigate and respond. Once you receive your FOS rights only then can you escalate to the ombudsman.

If you've contacted the FOS before making a complaint to your bank, the FOS will simply forward it to your bank and ask them to investigate. 8 weeks still apply. THEN if you're unhappy the FOS can be contacted after you've had your complaint outcome.

If you've not yet complained to your bank and had an official response letter with FOS escalation rights, do this today. Otherwise you're just adding a few weeks onto the timescale whilst the FOS raise the complaint with your bank on your behalf.

Yes, I know, I hold my hand up, but they’ll know which message I mean. I just couldn’t remember the wording properly. Something about people not always being who they seem.

I'm pretty sure either you or the checkout operator at Aldi would have noticed someone standing close enough to you to see you insert your PIN - with social distancing not so far behind us I find it really really unlikely that this is where the PIN was observed.

Based on the PPs quoting previous posts of yours ref your partner and his debts I'm firmly in the camp that you need to look much closer to home for your answer:

Is there any way your partner (or ex if he is now an ex) could know your PIN? (or make a good guess at it if it's a memorable date you've used)

Could your partner (ex) still have access to your house?

If the answers to these questions are YES (even if you didn't see him physically take the card) then you can be as sure as can be that your partner has stolen the card and used it to steal money from you.

Absolutely this.
I guess OP is just looking for ways to get the bank to refund her, which of course they won't because she should've reported the card as lost/stolen asap.

@Yesthatismychildsigh you need to report the thread to mnhq to get them to post that message.

Thanks, Richard. Not been back on here long, after leaving after a security lapse.

Friday I receive my final message from starling saying they will not refund as the withdrawals are not fraudulent.

Well, yes. As the card has been lost/stolen no fraud had occurred.

I have passed it to the ombudsman as their job is to review decisions and this is the only way I can now receive my refund.

And they will likely agree with your bank that no fraud had occurred as your card is lost/stolen.

They’d have to reword because that makes bugger all sense

😆
I know the one she means.
We can never be sure the OP is who they say. So anyone offering the OP money make sure it is never more than you can afford to lose.
Summut like that 😉

Someone took your card and used it while you were elsewhere.

They knew your pin

• so it is most likely that the taker is someone who is close to you and has (in the past) had opportunity to see you use it/can work out the number/knows where to find it recorded.

Do you have someone in your life who is short of money and either desparate enough or dishonest enough or entitled enough to take money from you?

If you know who took the money - do you want to take this further?

You say that you know nothing about cards etc as though that’s an excuse or an explanation.

It’s neither.

This is YOUR card. YOUR money. YOUR banking relationship.

It’s YOUR responsibility to know about these things. Nobody owes it to you to forgive your ignorance.

In addition, your story on this one thread on this single day is so muddled, so confused, it’s become entirely lacking in credibility. Linked card, main card, Aldi, work, topping up for shopping, too much of a pain….. none of this is of any relevance. Frankly, even now, it’s impossible to know which card you think you’re missing, or even whether you think a card is missing!

Starling are not at fault here. Doesn’t mean you are either. But right now, you need to get your story sorted out. The facts will lead you to the culprit. Hint: it’s not fraud or chip cloning 🙄

I have been through something similar with HSBC. Cash point withdrawals were being made from an online savings account, which had never had a card issued on it, so it was relatively easy for them to recognise it as a fraud. But at the same time proved their security systems can easily be bypassed.

Oh God. I’m so naive 🤦‍♀️

The op won’t be back

i just hope she stops pursuing this. She will be found to be attempting to defraud her bank otherwise.

I suspect she has triggered their fraud checks in any event already

Your partner has stolen your money. It's not the bank's fault. Call the police on him.

OP, have you checked your Starling PIN when out and about?

What some other posters may not realise is that Starling is a challenger bank (you can only use a mobile app to manage the account) and it has all sorts of features like being able to check your PIN in the app by popping in your app password or using your phone security (e.g. fingerprint scan, Face ID). If you've looked at your PIN on your phone, someone could have seen it over your shoulder, for example, if you were sitting on the bus and someone was in one of the higher seats behind you.

If someone had spotted your PIN, they might have targeted you to swipe the card out of your purse. If you normally put all of your cards in the same purse and don't, for example, sometimes put a card in a bag pocket, it seems unlikely that a stranger would have taken your card - mainly because it's harder to steal one card than it is the entire purse/bag.

Starling lets you have a 'connected card' which is effectively a pre-paid joint card you give to someone to buy stuff for you, if you don't trust them enough for a 'real' joint account or, say, they're a volunteer doing your shopping. The connected card looks the same as the normal debit card, but the debit card holder has to move funds across each time (so the person with the connected card doesn't have unlimited access to the main account funds). It's a bit of a confusing concept if you're only used to traditional banks!

The face of each card is identical.

It sounds like the OP has a normal debit card and a connected card (possibly because she gives this to her partner to do the shopping sometimes, given the justified trust issues). When someone started spending on her debit card, she got the automatic notifications on her phone, she wasn't expecting anyone to be buying stuff for her, and she panicked. When she looked in her purse, she saw a Starling card and assumed it was her debit card, but it was actually the connected card. Easy mistake to make - she would have had to take it out and turn it over to see it was the wrong card.

I completely understand the muddle, and also why the OP is so hard to follow.

It's not impossible that a stranger was able to steal the PIN and the main debit card, but given only one card was taken, I'm afraid it's much more likely that it's someone who knows you, OP.

As you've established the card has been stolen can you now get a crime ref number from the police?

dont know if said before but it doesnt look like a good idea to keep them together in your purse.