the "don't have kids if u can't afford them" mentality...

[MermaidCheeks]

Who exactly do this lot think are going to be looking after them in hospitals and care homes when they're elderly and infirm?


If only those who could really afford to have kids had them - a decreasing well-off demographic -we'd be even more fucked than we already are.

Immigration is not a long-term solution when 80% of elderly are going to be spread across low and middle-affluent countries by 2050, either. Every country is going to need their own citizens.

Instead of resenting people who need their wages topped-up by the government in order to afford having a couple of kids - maybe embrace those who are making sacrifices to have kids at all, especially in the face of the overwhelming decrease in value that society and successive governments have placed on the role of raising children.

[SpilltheTea]

The vacancies in health and social care aren't being filled by the existing generations, why are you deluding yourself? The jobs get more and more undesirable. The problem isn't going to be solved by adding more humans who will need to use the services, in the vain hope they choose to work for them. Lots of people in my generation don't want children and no form of encouragement will make them want to saddle themselves with the crap that comes with them. Why would the government give you a medal for choosing to have a kid? I wouldn't have a child I knew I couldn't afford because I want to have an actual life and I don't think other people should fund my choices.

[Breconhelen]

Fuck me oh virtuous do you think you are.

Kids or no kids everyone makes sacrifices in life.
Ever considered the extra tax that people without kids pay for the services you use?

[MermaidCheeks]

I guess our problem with recruiting into the care sector is sorted then now that all of MN are having kids to wipe old backsides.

eh?

[EmmaH2022]

Btw I'm 46 and the demographic time bomb was talked about when I was a teen.it depends what you think is a crisis. But no matter how many people you make, the job of care is never going to be popular.

community fills a lot of gaps. The oldies I help/have helped all have kids.

btw my parents did wait to have us, I'm glad they waited. We still didn't have the heating on as much as people do now. I used to wear my coat and read in bed after school. I think we switched the heating on at 6 or 7.

I am really baffled how people can see creating more people as a solution. I think it was the solution suggested at the last similar point in the cycle.

[MermaidCheeks]

Fuck me oh virtuous do you think you are.
Kids or no kids everyone makes sacrifices in life.
Ever considered the extra tax that people without kids pay for the services you use?

Have you actually read the thread??

[ilovesooty]

@MermaidCheeks

As long as you're not expecting any medical or social care when you're elderly.....

Does that mean that the child free shouldn't expect any help or social care in later life?

[EmmaH2022]

We could do with development on care robots...not a big fan of tech but sounds like that might be useful.

[rainbowmilk]

How is the govt/society vilifying people who can’t afford to have kids? I’ve seen people judge people for having kids when they can’t afford them, and I think that’s fair enough. That’s not vilifying, it’s natural to be appalled at a person making a conscious decision to have a child in horrible circumstances.

[SuperPets]

@Changingmynameyetagain1

This. This this this.

No, not this. This is a complete misunderstanding of how the system works!

What you are paying while you are working is not for your (public) pension. IT's for the pensions of people taking them now. You money is gone, there is no pot for you. In order to have a public pension, you definitely do need enough people to be working when you want to take it.

If we get to the point where life expectancy keeps rising and birth rates keep falling (which is extremely likely) the money won't be there to pay for all the pensions needed.

[Cognacsoft]

@BMW6

What on earth makes you think all these future children will fill roles in nursing or Care when they grow up?

They're not now, so why will the next generation? 🤔

Because supply and demand.
If carers are needed then they will have to be paid well if there is a shortage. Wages will go up.

In France dc have a legal obligation to pay towards their parents care. But that's because dc can't be disinherited.
Some Brits don't want to help their parents at all but still expect an inheritance.

[EmmaH2022]

@ilovesooty

Does that mean that the child free shouldn't expect any help or social care in later life?

Oh we childfree folk are always told that. Then I'm told I only have time to help neighbours due to no kids...as if my parents didn't/don't need help.

[JorisBonson]

@PaddingtonBearStareAgain

Oh look another bash those that don't have DC thread 🙄

I've got my bingo card at the ready, waiting for someone to tell us we shouldn't be on here.

[MermaidCheeks]

I am really baffled how people can see creating more people as a solution.

I agree that seriously long term it's not a solution.

But boy will there be suffering in the interim, surely.

The demographic time bomb is already exploding, by the way.

[Algbu6]

@Watchthesunrise

Back to the point though, it's possible to raise happy, well-adjusted, healthy children poor. I live in a developing country. Material wealth is not necessary to raise incredible kids. A stable home, sufficient food, basic healthcare and connected community is all that really matters.

in the developed world, poor means insecure housing. Housing is where it all unravels.

Who wants to raise poor children though or live in poverty? Its no life for the DC or the parent. It leads to many things if you fall upon an unfortunate job loss that is very different to having 3 to 5 kids that you knew you couldn't afford after 2 DC but continued.

[rainbowmilk]

@ilovesooty

Does that mean that the child free shouldn't expect any help or social care in later life?

We’re not even supposed to have nice picnic tables or 4 bed houses according to MN!

[PriamFarrl]

@MermaidCheeks

Yes, only the well off are not judged for procreating. My original point stands.

I judge anyone who has an excessive number of children. The world doesn’t need this many people and thankful contraception is available.

[LittleHeapOfBooks]

Yes, be grateful the lower class scum are breeding so they can take care of you because your own children won't. Lovely.

To be honest, with the low pay and poor working conditions, it is already the situation where elderly arent really being taken proper care of. It is getting worse and will continue to do so, I know a few people who have left the industry because supermarkets, amazon etc pay better and not as horrific work environments. They are leaving due to crap pay and poor working conditions. Not because the poor aren't breeding enough. I wouldn't count on them to be taking care of you OP.

[MermaidCheeks]

Oh look another bash those that don't have DC thread

How have you managed to work this one out? Defensive to the extreme.

[Cameleongirl]

I thought this thread was asking whether the “don’t have kids if you can’t afford them” mentality was reasonable?

Why do some posters think it’s bashing child free people? It’s not even relevant to them.

[AhaLyn]

The NHS is crumbling because it’s being choked on purpose towards privatisation.

I won’t be having kids when I can’t feed myself. Hope that’s okay.

[FatAgainItsLettuceTime]

@MermaidCheeks

How about raising sell rounded educated individuals who will earn a living wage to support themselves and their own families without having to take benefits?

Jesus wept. The ignorance in that statement is shocking.

Why is that ignorant?

My working class parents had 3 kids, mum worked part time, dad worked every hour possible as a vacuum molding engineer often sleeping in his workshop in order to get as much done as possible.

Us kids all did summer work and things like paper rounds from age 13 then weekend jobs from 15 and since then have been consistently employed.

I had 9 months off for maternity leave then DD went to nursery full time while I worked full time.

My parents raised kids with a strong work ethic and a desire to progress and be financially comfortable and we all are even though none of us have a university education.

According to my p60i paid just over £23k in tax last year.

So why is it ignorant to suggest that raising your kids with expectations above min wage work is a good idea?

[antelopevalley]

I have worked in care work. Most care workers have not been born in Britain. So for that YABU.

[PriamFarrl]

@MermaidCheeks

As long as you're not expecting any medical or social care when you're elderly.....

The children trapped in poverty aren’t going to be the doctors.

[MermaidCheeks]

Yes, be grateful the lower class scum are breeding

What?????????

To be honest, with the low pay and poor working conditions, it is already the situation where elderly arent really being taken proper care of. It is getting worse and will continue to do so, I know a few people who have left the industry because supermarkets, amazon etc pay better and not as horrific work environments. They are leaving due to crap pay and poor working conditions.

I'm well aware. I'm a carer.

Not because the poor aren't breeding enough. I wouldn't count on them to be taking care of you OP. again - what????

[Goldbar]

@pd339

You recognise it's a pyramid scheme, yet you think it should be propped up? Lunacy!

Maybe we shouldn't prop it up, but there's no doubt it's going to be horrific for those at the top of the scheme when it collapses and they don't see any of the care or benefits they assumed that they were entitled to and the state would provide. What is needed is long-term government planning to ensure a 'soft landing' but we've had governments for the past couple of decades who couldn't plan their way out of a paper bag.