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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why Glasgow Satantic ring isn't headline news?!

130 replies

CoastalWave · 03/08/2022 15:08

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62384842

Not often i'm speechless.

How is this buried within the news?! Should this not be headline?

It's beyond disturbing.

Those poor children

OP posts:
Surplus2requirements · 04/08/2022 21:44

Child abuse is a much broader category, the charges include child sex which is very obviously horrific child abuse.
Why people are taking issue with the words used when the reporting is very constrained at this point by law is bizarre.

wellhelloitsme · 04/08/2022 21:56

Surplus2requirements · 04/08/2022 21:44

Child abuse is a much broader category, the charges include child sex which is very obviously horrific child abuse.
Why people are taking issue with the words used when the reporting is very constrained at this point by law is bizarre.

Yes so my point is that it's strange to say 'child sex' instead of 'child abuse' when the charges are child abuse...

The article says they've been charged with child abuse so it's frustrating that they went with 'child sex' in the headline.

Language matters. 'Child sex' is always abuse. The same applies for the term 'child porn' which is unfortunately still widely used.

JohnRokesmith · 04/08/2022 22:08

sashh · 04/08/2022 10:05

Whereas in England the last prosecution was in 1944.

That wasn’t the last prosecution of a witch, that was the last prosecution under the powers of the Witchcraft Act of 1735. Despite the name, it wasn’t designed for prosecuting witches, but for prosecuting fraudsters pretending that they had magical powers.

Chouetted · 05/08/2022 03:04

wellhelloitsme · 04/08/2022 21:56

Yes so my point is that it's strange to say 'child sex' instead of 'child abuse' when the charges are child abuse...

The article says they've been charged with child abuse so it's frustrating that they went with 'child sex' in the headline.

Language matters. 'Child sex' is always abuse. The same applies for the term 'child porn' which is unfortunately still widely used.

I suppose they wanted to be more specific. I do find this argument a bit odd when the word "paedophilia" and related words are never objected to - the idea of boy-love gives me the creeps every time I see it.

AchatAVendre · 05/08/2022 07:03

viques · 04/08/2022 00:08

If it is a case not due to come to trial until next year then not much can be said about it so as not to prejudice the trial/ influence possible jurors . The more idle gossip and speculation there is the more chance of the accused being able to claim the trial is unfair.

This is not accurate. All newspapers have court reporters who report on court cases in their local area which are of general public interest. There is not some magical, unofficial sensitivity filter, on certain cases. The courts are public (unless a specific court order has been approved) and therefore if someone is charged, it is a face which is in the public domain and can be reported upon. It is a vital tenet of our legal system. I'm also shocked at the number of posters who seem to think that charges brought in court should not be reported upon in the newspapers just in case they don't result in a guilty verdict - seriously? These posters support a secretive system where such charges are hushed up just in case people who are not witnesses talk about it because they wrongly think that will be enough to prejudice the verdict and lead to a mistrial? OMG...

What is likely here is that this is part of a growing and continuing trend towards poor and limited press coverage in recent years aimed at Scotland as a whole.

I follow the courts for professional reasons and therefore very much need the Scottish newspapers in the central belt to report on cases in the year to eighteen months that cases take to get published in the official case law reports. I also need these reports to keep an eye on what is happening before a trial stage. There is now a clear trend in Scotland towards a lack of reporting on Scottish issues. While not related to the political party in power, the Scottish Government probably should be making itself more aware of the issue and address it in some shape or form. After all, what is the Scottish Parliament for?

The Guardian published an article about this problem in Scotland back in 2019, and the issue will only be worse now since Covid, some of which I will quote below: www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/10/scotland-newspaper-cuts-the-herald-the-scotsman

The loss of staff at Scotland’s key titles has been dramatic according to any measure. In 2009, there were about 240 journalists across the Herald, its Sunday sister and the Glasgow Times. But staff at the Herald – which has been published since 1783 – have learned in the past month of restructuring plans to further reduce its news operation to consist of three general reporters, working across seven days, with no night cover, in addition to three more reporting roles across its politics and business teams.

The Scotsman newsroom has likewise more than halved over the past decade to about a dozen reporters, with staff moving from a purpose-built office close to the Scottish parliament to a block on the edge of Edinburgh.

Journalists across both titles describe the deliberate dismantling of specialisms, bringing with it a reduction in exclusive content and splashes. As the Herald in particular continues to lose experienced reporters, industry insiders are raising serious doubts about how remaining digital staff will have the capacity or expertise to scrutinise policymakers and politicians.

Comparisons are made with the first years of the Scottish parliament, when a far healthier press held newly elected representatives to account, for example prompting the resignation of the second first minister, Henry McLeish, over an expenses scandal.

David Clegg, who was named journalist of the year at the Scottish Press Awards in April for his work revealing the initial sexual harassment allegations against the former first minister Alex Salmond, applauds colleagues for “performing daily miracles” but says cuts to reporting staff across Newsquest and JPI Media can only compromise future coverage of Scotland’s shifting political landscape.
“A second independence referendum will be an event of historic significance, and it’s vital that both sides are scrutinised by a healthy and robust media. But it’s also about the decisions of local councils, health boards and courts that deserve scrutiny on a daily basis. When you don’t have dedicated reporters covering a city like Glasgow, it affects the national conversation,” he says.*

Both the Press & Journal in Aberdeen and the Courier in Dundee substantially outsell their central belt counterparts. Newquest no longer publishes audited circulation figures for its titles, but the Herald had fallen to 22,901 a day by the end of December 2018, while the Scotsman sells 14,938 copies a day.

Off the top of my head, there are 2 Scottish stories, not involving potential child sex rings that have been very poorly reported. The Edinburgh Council statutory notices scam (which led to several CofE employees being jailed and millions of pounds worth of debt being written off due to a compulsory scheme run by the Council to force homeowners to have repairs carried out which were often unnecessary or over-charged) was reported on by the BBC, but there was simply little real interest within Scotland. Many people in Edinburgh simply don't know about it, the Scottish Parliament didn't debate it and the whole issue has been poorly reported within Scotland, although it should be one of the biggest scandals of recent times.

There is also a case which was before the Court of Session last week involving a tenant of a stately home called Rossie Priory who has challenged his eviction despite stopping paying rent in early 2016, instead utilising the number of appeals against eviction and the new landlord and tenant legislation to play the system. The Courier has reported on the case at an early stage but the national Scottish newspapers didn't take it up. Its a particularly salacious case, with the unpaid rent now surely approaching 1/2 million pounds and the court fees surely not much less. I'd quite like to know the outcome of this case as has important implications for all landlords and tenants in Scotland and represents a problem for landlords in Scotland not heard of in the rest of the world. Instead, there is nothing in the newspapers anywhere.

But you just have to look at the number of posters on this thread who think that cases brought before the courts shouldn't be reported on and should instead be hushed up (a particular problem if an Accused dies before the trial as there will be no record of them being charged in the public domain) to understand why this is a growing problem.

ImperioMarch · 07/08/2022 20:50

All newspapers have court reporters who report on court cases in their local area which are of general public interest.
No they don't. Staff court reporters are pretty rare these days. Most of it is done by freelancers.

aviculara · 15/08/2022 15:58

Well they are all white heroin addicts so I’m not sure why race would play a part.

knackeredagain · 15/08/2022 16:37

AchatAVendre · 05/08/2022 07:03

This is not accurate. All newspapers have court reporters who report on court cases in their local area which are of general public interest. There is not some magical, unofficial sensitivity filter, on certain cases. The courts are public (unless a specific court order has been approved) and therefore if someone is charged, it is a face which is in the public domain and can be reported upon. It is a vital tenet of our legal system. I'm also shocked at the number of posters who seem to think that charges brought in court should not be reported upon in the newspapers just in case they don't result in a guilty verdict - seriously? These posters support a secretive system where such charges are hushed up just in case people who are not witnesses talk about it because they wrongly think that will be enough to prejudice the verdict and lead to a mistrial? OMG...

What is likely here is that this is part of a growing and continuing trend towards poor and limited press coverage in recent years aimed at Scotland as a whole.

I follow the courts for professional reasons and therefore very much need the Scottish newspapers in the central belt to report on cases in the year to eighteen months that cases take to get published in the official case law reports. I also need these reports to keep an eye on what is happening before a trial stage. There is now a clear trend in Scotland towards a lack of reporting on Scottish issues. While not related to the political party in power, the Scottish Government probably should be making itself more aware of the issue and address it in some shape or form. After all, what is the Scottish Parliament for?

The Guardian published an article about this problem in Scotland back in 2019, and the issue will only be worse now since Covid, some of which I will quote below: www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/10/scotland-newspaper-cuts-the-herald-the-scotsman

The loss of staff at Scotland’s key titles has been dramatic according to any measure. In 2009, there were about 240 journalists across the Herald, its Sunday sister and the Glasgow Times. But staff at the Herald – which has been published since 1783 – have learned in the past month of restructuring plans to further reduce its news operation to consist of three general reporters, working across seven days, with no night cover, in addition to three more reporting roles across its politics and business teams.

The Scotsman newsroom has likewise more than halved over the past decade to about a dozen reporters, with staff moving from a purpose-built office close to the Scottish parliament to a block on the edge of Edinburgh.

Journalists across both titles describe the deliberate dismantling of specialisms, bringing with it a reduction in exclusive content and splashes. As the Herald in particular continues to lose experienced reporters, industry insiders are raising serious doubts about how remaining digital staff will have the capacity or expertise to scrutinise policymakers and politicians.

Comparisons are made with the first years of the Scottish parliament, when a far healthier press held newly elected representatives to account, for example prompting the resignation of the second first minister, Henry McLeish, over an expenses scandal.

David Clegg, who was named journalist of the year at the Scottish Press Awards in April for his work revealing the initial sexual harassment allegations against the former first minister Alex Salmond, applauds colleagues for “performing daily miracles” but says cuts to reporting staff across Newsquest and JPI Media can only compromise future coverage of Scotland’s shifting political landscape.
“A second independence referendum will be an event of historic significance, and it’s vital that both sides are scrutinised by a healthy and robust media. But it’s also about the decisions of local councils, health boards and courts that deserve scrutiny on a daily basis. When you don’t have dedicated reporters covering a city like Glasgow, it affects the national conversation,” he says.*

Both the Press & Journal in Aberdeen and the Courier in Dundee substantially outsell their central belt counterparts. Newquest no longer publishes audited circulation figures for its titles, but the Herald had fallen to 22,901 a day by the end of December 2018, while the Scotsman sells 14,938 copies a day.

Off the top of my head, there are 2 Scottish stories, not involving potential child sex rings that have been very poorly reported. The Edinburgh Council statutory notices scam (which led to several CofE employees being jailed and millions of pounds worth of debt being written off due to a compulsory scheme run by the Council to force homeowners to have repairs carried out which were often unnecessary or over-charged) was reported on by the BBC, but there was simply little real interest within Scotland. Many people in Edinburgh simply don't know about it, the Scottish Parliament didn't debate it and the whole issue has been poorly reported within Scotland, although it should be one of the biggest scandals of recent times.

There is also a case which was before the Court of Session last week involving a tenant of a stately home called Rossie Priory who has challenged his eviction despite stopping paying rent in early 2016, instead utilising the number of appeals against eviction and the new landlord and tenant legislation to play the system. The Courier has reported on the case at an early stage but the national Scottish newspapers didn't take it up. Its a particularly salacious case, with the unpaid rent now surely approaching 1/2 million pounds and the court fees surely not much less. I'd quite like to know the outcome of this case as has important implications for all landlords and tenants in Scotland and represents a problem for landlords in Scotland not heard of in the rest of the world. Instead, there is nothing in the newspapers anywhere.

But you just have to look at the number of posters on this thread who think that cases brought before the courts shouldn't be reported on and should instead be hushed up (a particular problem if an Accused dies before the trial as there will be no record of them being charged in the public domain) to understand why this is a growing problem.

I work in this field and this is partly right and partly not. Yes, we can report preliminary court cases but the level of detail we are allowed to go into is limited, depending on the stage of proceedings.

Im not up to speed on Scottish media law, which is different from English, but the Magistrates Court Act restricts reports of earlier hearings, when there is going to be a trial to 10 points, which are: name, age, occupation, charge details (date/location of alleged offence and charge itself), dates for future hearings, names of counsel, the court it will be heard at and arrangements for bail/custody.

So while there have been reports, quite rightly, they haven’t gone into details about the case which could be seen to prejudice any future trial.

JamesGetIn · 05/09/2023 15:25

This is back in the news today - the trial has started.

news.sky.com/story/eleven-on-trial-over-alleged-child-sex-abuse-and-witchcraft-in-glasgow-12955537

Wsmi · 05/09/2023 15:30

OP, be careful. You’ll have a non crime hate incident logged against you and police turn up at your door. Because you’re discriminating against minor attracted persons. You can call them paedos anymore.

Wsmi · 05/09/2023 15:32

It’s Scotland. So sadly, this kind of thing is practically legal there now. Women and children living in Scotland are no longer safe from anything.

Surplus2requirements · 05/09/2023 16:34

bellac11 · 03/08/2022 15:33

Hiding it away to try to protect the perpetrators because of their ethnicity..... oh wait....

This post didn't age well

RomaniIteDomum · 13/09/2023 07:12

This post didn't age well

A lot of posts on this thread haven't aged well - it's almost like there are rules in place to prevent trials collapsing and that the justice system moves slowly.

pickledandpuzzled · 13/09/2023 08:45

I think that was the posters point, about the race of the perpetrators. That people make assumptions based on media portrayal and previous scandals, and are as often wrong as they are right.

CallumDansTransitVan · 13/09/2023 14:09

pickledandpuzzled · 13/09/2023 08:45

I think that was the posters point, about the race of the perpetrators. That people make assumptions based on media portrayal and previous scandals, and are as often wrong as they are right.

Like this case?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney_child_abuse_scandal

Orkney child abuse scandal - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney_child_abuse_scandal

Johnclark1606 · 29/09/2023 13:32

Well said , as its not true , just so many lives destroyed and also life's of the family , ripple affect

Spanglemum02 · 29/09/2023 13:41

There were a lot of these cases around in 1980s and 1990s. As other posters have said, the Satanic Panic.

Really really horrible though.

Giggorata · 29/09/2023 13:42

Dotjones · 03/08/2022 16:07

The SNP are trying to hush this up because it doesn't reflect well on Scotland. Scotland has a terrible history with witchcraft (the British story of witches being persecuted is above all a Scottish one, though one wouldn't think it because the SNP do a good job of hushing it up), the last one being executed as recently as 1727, long after other countries ceased the hunt.

It is shocking to hear that witchcraft is still practiced north of the border and I'm not suprised - though disappointed - that Sturgeon & co. don't want this getting out.

Please don't make the error of conflating Satanism with witchcraft, Wicca paganism or ceremonial magic.

OMG12 · 29/09/2023 17:46

Giggorata · 29/09/2023 13:42

Please don't make the error of conflating Satanism with witchcraft, Wicca paganism or ceremonial magic.

Yes I queried exactly the same point. I’m not even sure that people understand what Satanism is and the different things it can mean.

I wish kind were taught more about these things in their RE lessons and esoteric history was included more in mainstream teaching

therealcookiemonster · 29/09/2023 17:53

let's focus on the facts.

adults sexually abused children while other adults watched and clapped

also children were forced to do absolutely horrific shit and are no doubt scarred for life

focusing on the absurd and 'scandalous' takes away from the awful tragedy.

what I want to know is, where were social services/the police/the school system in all this?

why is our country repeatedly failing children?

Surplus2requirements · 29/09/2023 21:03

therealcookiemonster · 29/09/2023 17:53

let's focus on the facts.

adults sexually abused children while other adults watched and clapped

also children were forced to do absolutely horrific shit and are no doubt scarred for life

focusing on the absurd and 'scandalous' takes away from the awful tragedy.

what I want to know is, where were social services/the police/the school system in all this?

why is our country repeatedly failing children?

None of that is fact yet and similar has been proved not to be before.

I'll wait for the trial

DontListenToWhatYouveConsumed · 14/11/2023 16:26

👏👏👏👏
Not sure how Elaine Lannery was charged with rape? I know she's a fucking beast but we're always told a woman can't 'rape' as the definition is with a 'penis'.
But well done to those brave children/young people. My heart goes out to them 🌺

bellac11 · 14/11/2023 19:21

Women can be charged with rape, it has happened before

Look at the state of them.

There will have been more of them but I bet there wasnt enough evidence. It would have been much wider than them

bellac11 · 14/11/2023 19:35

Very badly written article, but horrendous nevertheless.

Notice others were acquitted....hmm

And some died before it got to trial

Horrific

And reading between the lines I suspect many of the victims were offspring of the perpetrators.

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