Are you a feminist, if yes, what does it mean to you?

[YouAreNotBatman]

YANBU = I’m am
YABU = I am not

And here you are wrong again!

They look for ovaries or testes in a pre natal ultrasound.

They don't need to be told they are men

If being told they are men is distressing, we don't tell them they are men

Nevertheless they are actually men and have every opportunity to participate within mens sports

Oh well never mind silly me!

Intersectionality is important but doesn't work if you impose incongruent intersections.
Feminism is concerned with the equality and rights of females, sex is the axis of oppression. This can intersect with race, disability, age....and also with being transgender but that intersection is transmen not transwomen.

Maybe try talking to males about intersectionality in relation to the problems faced by transwomen.

You are making these claims that are not based on science or medical knowledge and therefore you need to expect other people to point out where that information is wrong.

And you did post this on Mumsnet…

@ErrolTheDragon

Intersectionality is important but doesn't work if you impose incongruent intersections. Feminism is concerned with the equality and rights of females, sex is the axis of oppression. This can intersect with race, disability, age....and also with being transgender but that intersection is transmen not transwomen.

Maybe try talking to males about intersectionality in relation to the problems faced by transwomen.

Well said!

No honestly I don’t mind you pointing it out - I’d rather be corrected than spout something incorrect. Always happy to be corrected, but I am losing the will to live at this point lol. We’re never going to agree and are unlikely to change each other’s minds. You’re entitled to your opinions and I mine. Enjoy your evening x

If you’re all so pissed off with being born as one of the weaker sex, that’s fine
Just have a wank in a jar and put it in the deep freeze to keep the human race going, then get your balls chopped off to prove you’re serious about being a woman
otherwise, please just bore off
Still going to be stronger and able to beat the shit out of us, balls or no
So maybe if you want to join us feminists you should chop your arms off too

You too!

However, I do want to clarify one more thing. Perhaps you should look into what male DSDs have ‘vulvas’ if you are going to use that as your basis for definition of female (and no, we shall never agree that vulvas are what differentiates female and male).

Because those people with CAIS may have a vulva. But they also cannot utilize the testosterone their testes produce in their body so are currently allowed to participate in the female sports category. Well at the moment. Who knows in years to come if an advantage is observed.

This is, of course, why precise language is important around the issue of sport.

I definitely do need to read up on it more because I don’t understand enough about the topic. However for me my womanhood is more because I feel like a woman. If tomorrow something changed and I was no longer defined as a woman, it wouldn’t change how I felt. I suppose that’s why I empathise with trans women and “men” with vulvas. It must be difficult to feel as though you are a woman and not be viewed as one by society. But anyway, we’ll agree to disagree 😊

If they’ve got a vulva and call themselves a man, that’s up to them and I personally would call them a man, whether or not they should be included in feminism would be an interesting debate

No debate needed. All females are included in feminism.

Even those who don’t want to be included are m, and they also benefit from the sexed based rights that we fight for.

Maybe try talking to males about intersectionality in relation to the problems faced by transwomen.

Yes exactly, but my point was about the lack of care for female people by most people who preach "intersectionality" in general but don't seem to understand why pretending that biological sex isn't important isn't an intersectional approach.

And in the interest of precision because we are discussing sport and the legal framework around their participation, I have always referred to them as ‘males’.

Not men. They can identify as women but they are males.

I don't understand how people can feel like something. Can't imagine thinking to myself I feel like a human, or feel like a woman. It's more just I am a human, I am a woman.

Because those people with CAIS may have a vulva. But they also cannot utilize the testosterone their testes produce in their body so are currently allowed to participate in the female sports category. Well at the moment. Who knows in years to come if an advantage is observed.

This is, of course, why precise language is important around the issue of sport.

This is important. The males concerned in the athletics rules aren't people who grew to adulthood without realising that they were XY.

'Feeling like a woman' is completely irrelevant to the serious problems feminism needs to engage with. To take one of the most obvious and stark examples, the selective abortion or neonatal death of girls in some cultures.

There's a good Twitter thread about your prevalence of violence figures electricdreams. They seem very dubious to me, the lifetime chance of rape or attempted rape for women is estimated as between 1 and 6 and 1 in 4 women.

As I mentioned, I've seen this lifetime rape figure for women conflated with the "sexual assault" figures for all trans people to imply falsely that MTF people are at higher risk than women of all sexual assault when the figures for them a) do not just relate to rape but all sexual assault, and b) show FTM trans people as having a higher risk of sexual assault than MTF.

It's not for nothing that I am highly sceptical of most trans statistics.

It also seems from what people say that the MTF trans people sample in that Williams Institute study you cited was tiny, a couple of hundred people in a huge survey of 400k people. And that because the sample was small much of it wasn't disaggregated in any way.

Also, as mentioned, it's in the US, which is a more violent society in general, and culturally not the same in many ways, without the welfare state that we have. The MTF trans demographic is more likely to engage in prostitution which is dangerous for everyone, but which most women do not engage in.

I'm not suggesting that a Twitter thread is a reliable source, but it is an interesting read through the comments.

https://twitter.com/un_women/status/1468316777486503937?s=21&t=6J38EZarhF6qRtb2DJtYZw

I am a feminist, yes,

Feminism to me means standing up for the rights of women and girls in our society that is still very very very heavily biased towards favouring men, however they identify.

I grew up in the 1970s, when girls like me were being told that , "Yes, of course, you can be anything you want to be... but... oooh, no, you can't do that, or that, and don't let's push things too far, eh? Or no-one will want to marry you!!!!"

Went to a grammar school. But still - e.g. the boys had woodwork and metalwork lessons, when the girls had what was patronisingly entitled "Domestic Science". Which made me laugh. Bitterly. It was all about how to clean and hoover your home properly, and the correct way of doing the laundry and the washing-up, and cleaning an oven, etc. Science??!! Don't make me laugh.

I'd have preferred woodwork and metalwork, from a practical learning point of view, since I was already having to do the "domestic science!!' stuff at home since I was about 8 anyway; whereas my brother didn't have to do any housework (sorry, "domestic science") at all.

Recent developments with men claiming "womanhood" - No. Men may feel whatever they feel - like all of us - but if they have or used to have a penis, then that person is a man and has no place in single-sex spaces for women and girls.

NO boys in girls' spaces. NO men in women's spaces.

This is a key point, a basic point of feminism for me. Feminism is for women and girls.

Any creed that pushes women into "being kind" to men as an article of faith, is not feminism.

Sorry for the essay.

TL:DR Feminism is for women and girls. Females.

I know, just don't understand what it means for someone to say they are a woman because they feel like one. That's saying they are not exactly a woman, but rather something similar to their idea of what a woman is, therefore they must be a woman - which doesn't make any sense as a sentence or a construct.

Yes, I agree:
I know, just don't understand what it means for someone to say they are a woman because they feel like one. That's saying they are not exactly a woman, but rather something similar to their idea of what a woman is, therefore they must be a woman - which doesn't make any sense as a sentence or a construct."

Indeed.

Facts: a woman is an adult human female; a girl is a juvenile human female.

No man or boy can ever be a woman or a girl.

Feminism speaks out and defends and campaigns for women and girls.

Not a feminist

@wellhelloitsme I agree with what your saying , I just don't see that one persons rights should come at the expense of another persons rights either way. So with regards to changing rooms , our leisure centre has mixed with cubicles, no body gets changed in front of anyone else . For me it's about being inclusive but safe. Sport maybe there just needs to be new ways of categorising sport. Tw can be women in society with out it taking away from women. But everyone needs to feel safe, it's a balance.

ODFOD.
"Actual"??

Sport maybe there just needs to be new ways of categorising sport.

This is beginning to happen with the creation of an ‘open’ category. This open category leaves the female category strictly for females.

Not one of the world’s experts have been able to model any other ‘new way of categorising’ sport to make this work. Ok either side. Despite the constant narrative of ‘just find a new way to play’ no one has found a workable solution.

Of course, some sports already have mixed sex categories such as touch rugby. So there has been this option already and considered not enough for some.

Of course, sport is not just about ‘safety’. It is about ‘equal opportunity’. A male has physical advantages that cannot be negated that means that their participation in a sport reduces opportunity and fairness for females.