To think the able bodied / mind/ non carer/ non low wage s worker on benefits, benefit population that claim benefits should contribute somehow to the community/ get the money for WORK .

[Crikeymaccrikey]

Yes this may be costly to set up such as enhanced dbs checks etc.

I feel that this would both give a purpose and a contribution. And lead to jobs possibly/ develop cv / show work ethic.

In addition , it may stop the resentment and the benefit bashing if the claimants are seen to be contributing to society.

This is not necessarily a tory notion.
Karl Marxs idea about each to ones own ability... encompasses this idea of people working together for the whole of society accordi ng to ability. A quick google implies this is actually a socilaist idea of all doing what they can . This is what i am suggesting.

And before anyone says they would be pushed into things.. maybe there could be a choice of ways to contribute ,like on a data base.

Also, I am a cleaner myself. I literally clean poo off loos. I do not feel less worthy than others . I do the job because I can no longer work in my profession , as I get older, ( burnt out nhs) and see nothing but value in my ( ? Seen as some,lowly work). It gives me structure, a decent wage, and I contribute. All good. No shame in doing a good job , whatever that job if it is in my ability.

How can this idea, properly managed be other than reasonable. ?

Oh for what it's worth, according to the government, eight times more people claiming pension credit are caught committing fraud, than people claiming PIP committing fraud.

So - officially - pensioners are eight times more likely to lie and commit fraud than disabled benefits claimants.

When was the last time you saw anything about those wily thieving pensioners?

@AyeUpMeDuck but thats claiming unemployment benefit not other benefits is it not ?
I do live on a council estate and whilst the majority work , there is a couple of familes who don't
A couple have a large number of children so not on unemployment benefits but other benefits so are they included in that 400k ? It needs breaking down and being shown a lot better
I know several families where they haven't worked for years thats a fact ,

Well said.
Saying 99% of disability claimants are faking and lying is disgusting ableism.

Everyone seems to know a family where "nobody has worked for multiple generations" but statistically that is unlikely, as other than a very small subset of families most families have somebody working. Yes there will be maybe granny, mum and daughter all on benefits and may all be single parents (still very small number statistically) there will be brothers, sisters, uncles, aunties, great aunts, great uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews and children who are working, or working and claiming (the new norm for a lot of working class families). Yes there are occasional cases of multiple generations not working but usually this is due to them working outside the law instead, and even then there will usually be some 'breakaway' members who follow the conventional path. Most people want to work or want the financial security that work brings, at least. It's a tired trope used to demonise benefit claimants, but it's not based in reality behind the occasional unicorn family

I have been bedbound for 10 years with severe ME. I have v limited energy, both physical and mental, and sensory limits - noise, touch, some light and even movement. Not to mention many other v unpleasant symptoms including pain. I can only type a few paragraphs daily on a good day, some days just a few words, before all those symptoms worsen and I am utterly wrecked unable even to communicate. There are few outward signs of such symptoms if you observe me for a short space of time. Blanket suggestions such as people bedridden could work from bed operating machinery show an alarming level of ignorance in how illness can affect a person’s body. Some people are disabled and with equipment and adjustments can manage some things but there are plenty of conditions like mine where there is no equipment or adjustments that can make the person be able to function sufficiently to work.

@JemimaPuddlegoose do you have a link for that as I am wondering how as they have to show all other earnings , savings etc

Quite right. That's why it wasn't said.

You never do because according to media and people... Pensioners have worked hard all their lives and paid in millions.

They forget that that all the millions of I employed they believe never work also go onto be pensioners..

So what is it?
All pensioners hard working pay in their whole life..
or some pensioners are the same people they're insulting that have reached retirement age..

It is what you said

You stated
In my role of 30 years I would say 99 per cent of people claiming pip have not been truthful in their applications.

You established your cred as an expert of 30yrs experience, then gave your estimate that “99 per cent of people claiming pip have not been truthful”

You didn’t say 99 per cent of people I have seen in my work….like you are now claiming you said. You said a GENERAL 99 per cent of people claiming pip…which is 99 per cent of ALL people claiming pip.

It's quite clear I meant 99 per cent of the applicants I have encountered. Otherwise I'd be stating 99 per cent of all pip applicants which is an impossibility. And also not true. I can only give my experience. Why I'd lie is anyone's guess really. Makes you wonder why they even employ fraud teams? Not needed are they lol.

I have also fought tooth and nail to get decisions overturned (100% success rate) so as much as you want to paint me as a bad guy you won't.

You should let the Rowntree foundation know as when they looked into it they couldn’t find any three generation families who claimed benefits as a lifestyle choice (not including disabilities obviously as that’s not a lifestyle choice).

Its funny how there’s always people on these threads that know better than the experts.

Its like bingo

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2020-to-2021-estimates/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-for-financial-year-ending-2021#total-estimates-of-fraud-and-error-across-all-benefit-expenditure

I googled since I wasn't sure either what constituted "pension credit fraud", and there seems to be very little online or in the media, but I found a few examples:

www.mosslaw.co.uk/cases/no-prosecution-for-50k-pension-credit-overpayment/

www.lep.co.uk/news/crime/preston-pension-credit-fraud-received-ps21k-overpayment-after-lying-about-a-house-he-inherited-3285256

Seems like pension credit fraud is lying about or hiding other earnings or capital.

You’re clearly a liar.

In my role of 30 years I would say 99 per cent of people claiming pip have not been truthful in their applications. is an outright lie.

@AyeUpMeDuck only a few pensionsers at present would of always claimed ,as benefits haven't been around forever
And people target all pensioners when they say it
My uncle barely paid taxes for years ( never claimed either just lived off grid pretty much ) until about 55 then claimed benefits , he now gets pension and pension credit , more than my dad who has always worked gets from his state pension
He also gets rent paid and c tax help etc etc
So your right some pensioners also claimed and what to me is wrong as in my uncles case he is better off than my dad , so a fair system it is not . This is why people get cross
But the vast majority of pensioners who get the state pension would of paid in and will be getting it based on what they paid in
Because my mum was self employed for a good few years , she doesn't qualify for a full state pension as they don't take self employed NI into account
The system is very unfair across the board
So no need to target pensioners as a whole
How about we just target and have stricter penalties for those abusing the system as that money is then taken away from those who need it

Okay but what do you want us to extrapolate from that: that you live in some kind of hyper-fraud hotspot where benefit fraud has 300% higher than anywhere else for 30 years without anyone noticing or doing anything about it?

It's reasonable to assume that someone fighting tooth and nail to get their "30 years experience" in handling PIP claims accepted as The Truth are speaking broadly.

Makes you wonder why they even employ fraud teams? Not needed are they lol.

Well considering nearly 90% of all disability benefit fraud claims are found to be baseless...

Ok. If it makes you feel better.

@JemimaPuddlegoose im reading it as a lot of overpayments too and reason self employment , assets and living together as top reasons
Also sometimes UC etc messes up
I have had tax credit overpayments before despite giving all correct info

It’s not clear that’s what you meant at all. If you had truly meant that, you would not have worded the way you did. You have to admit when several of us have all read what you wrote as meaning the exact same thing, that you didn’t write what you think you wrote.

Besides, even as a revised “oh I meant only 99% of the people I have encountered over 30yrs working in the field are liars” that’s statistically impossible when the actual stats for disability fraud are 0.3%. Unless almost all the fraudsters in the entire country happen to be in your local authority? And you were assigned to them?

Such a statement shows your bigoted ableism and the fact you’re an “expert” with “30yrs” experience shows you are part of the problem and no friend of disabled people quite frankly.

Benefits have been a thing for a long long time.

1942 report recommend sweeping reforms and a safety net of sorts to be provided. 1948 those recommendations were put into place to help post WWII society.

Before that 1908 contributions based pensions started.

Before that the churches and work houses tried to help the poor.

Someone born in 1948 would have grown up with a welfare system. Theyd be more than old enough to retire by now.

Yeah for the paltry 1% you thought were deserving disabled, obviously not for the 99% you had decided were liars.

Unemployment benefits have been around in various forms for over 100 years.

Experimental and limited began in 1911, it was extended in 1920, decreased in 1930s, then increased and standardised in the mid 40’s.

There have been plenty opportunities for families to have multiple generations of lifestyle choice benefit claiming, but the evidence is that doesn’t happen.

Makes no odds to me of someone feels the need to be goady and tell lies on the Internet.

I just hope you’re also bullshitting about your job as I’d pity anyone with the unfortunate luck to get landed with such a judgemental “expert”

This was done
People were being fired, claiming benefits, then re”hired” at no pay

@AyeUpMeDuck but its still a small percent as benefits were not the same as now by any strectch
Its unrealistic to think no one plays the system
I have family members even that do or have done
The whole thing is a mess there is no real help for those wanting to get into work
I found myself unemployed due to covid and went to what i thought was job centre and it was all about putting in a claim
They never helped me find work or anything like that, its used to be a lot more help in getting people into positions
I got zero help and it was a lot of hassle for the £70 quid a week
Luckily i found work quite quickly but there were other people there struggling who just needed help and wanted to work but maybe interview technique etc was a bit rusty
More effort should be put in getting people back into work in some capacity and that means helping people and working with employers to give people a chance and pay a fair wage