Why aren't people on benefits be asked to pick fruit? Why bring in immigrants?

[quietandcomplex]

Can someone explain to me why, when there are so many unemployed and on benefits, they aren't picking fruit for the farmers? Why bring immigrants into the country to do the job? This is not a political or racist or anything other post, it does not make sense to me, what am I missing?

Possibly because people on benefits would have to be offered legal minimum wage and fair work conditions. Not all immigrant fruit pickers are.

Most people aren't near farms

Yup, but you'll be shot down in flames of course. 🙄

“Why doesn’t something that is legally and logistically costly, happen overnight? Whyyyy?”

I read these kind of posts in the voice of Gareth Keenan from the Office.. “will there be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark?”

God we had this shit from the daily Mail readers during furlough in the first lock down. There's loads of reasons, here's a few:

Live hours from fruit farms
Caring responsibilities mean you couldn't commute those 2/3 hours
Too old/physically not able to pick fruit or veg for hours a day

Maybe because they don't live near the fruit farms? Maybe because many of them are not well enough to work?

Just because you are on benefits doesn't mean you are free to travel to any place to pick fruit. What are you supposed to do with your children, cat, elderly parent etc etc...
Also, just because you don't have a job doesn't mean you want a job and farmers aren't running a holiday camp for unhelpful people so you can't can't just force people into these things. That would turn it into a labour camp rather than a job.

Why doesn’t something that is legally and logistically costly, happen overnight? Whyyyy?”
It's not like fruit picking seasons are a surprise though, is it?

The current unemployment rate is 3.7% and I guess most do not live near farms. Fruit picking is generally below NMW, with working conditions that do not meet legal requirements.

And how and when would they be looking for permanent jobs and preparing for/going to interviews?

Most people on benefits either work or have caring responsibilities.

Well I knew a few people on benefits desperate for work applying to all the fruit picking jobs they could find. They were knocked back for every single one. When I was younger I wanted to backpack around my own country and rely on casual work including fruit picking and out of all the farms only one gave me a job.

I think it’s because the farmers choose immigrants to get away with paying below award wages and save some money.

The one farmer who took me on explained how little they get paid for their fruit compared to what it costs the consumer at the supermarket or fruit shop.

People are usually financially better off on UC than in a minimum paid job. So, why would you?

• they are slower as they are noobs and it becomes unprofitable
• they are likely to know their rights and not get into a below minimum wage situation (see also @goldfinchonthelawn 's post)
• they often have family responsibilities and can't bugger off and live in a caravan for a picking season
• imagine the state of your strawberries if they are picked by someone there under sufferance!

I have no idea but they should. Anyone who is able should do some sort of contribution to earn their money. Whether it be litter picking, gardening, public spaces etc or other jobs which seem to be done less and less now and would benefit the community.

Try these…

People don’t live anywhere near fruit-picking farms.

People often have to live on site -and pay for accommodation. (No good if you’re a single parent with dc. And what do you do about your current accommodation?)

People may be disabled -hence being on benefits.(May not be up to doing hard physical task).

Short-term work lasting only a few weeks(where are people meant to live the rest of the time?)

Most people on benefits already have jobs.
etc.

Is calendar planning the only obstacle then @BreakerOfBras ? Do forgive me I stand corrected 🙄

When I was on benefits I lived (and still do live) miles and miles from any fruit farms. I also had young children (not school age) that I had caring responsibilities for. I'm also physically disabled (arthritis) and I don't think I'd be much use at the actual picking of the fruit as a result and it would cause me pain.

I understand that fruit farms aren't conveniently located for many unemployed, but what about filling potholes in the road? They're everywhere!
😁

As said these aren't job bs that offer even minimum wage. Jobs which have travel and/or accommodation included don't have to pay minimum wage.
Secondly we don't have a benefit system that supports temporary working. UC was supposed to do that, but doesn't. So people are at risk of becoming homeless if they take temporary jobs. Or their teenager does. If anyone in the household works, money is deducted from HB/CT benefits. This can be more than a teen earns for some reason. Sometimes people's claims are suspended while they gather the information needed. This is how people on HB get into arrears.
Thirdly you have to be available to work the set hours and fit enough to do it, which is why it would have been perfect for teens. Not so much for many people.
With austerity people are close to breaking point and it's a scary prospect to leap from a place of relative safety into the unknown. If they are guaranteed to be better off and their claim remains the same, then people would take jobs.

Are there so many unemployed? Maybe those who are seeking work are looking for a job that pays a fair wage and not the shitty wages the are offering? Maybe because the farms are often miles away?

Around my way, the farms organise a once-a-week coach to take the migrant summer workers to the supermarket to stock up on supplies - they buy snacks, water, sugary drinks. They live in temporary accommodation on the farms. They work 12 hour shifts in the polytunnels. They are always cheerful and I am always impressed by their resilience.

It seems you cannot force British people to relocate to do that work, although there must be some people who are don’t have children to care for and are not disabled, who could in theory be relocated for the summer to do the harvest. It may need to be a subsidised scheme, as why would a farmer choose an unfit reluctant lazy British person over a fit, motivated, efficient East European?

How is fruit picking below NMW? Surely that's the point of NMW?

(Not being goady, I've just seen quite a few pp mention it)

Because mending roads is a skilled job, and if someone is going to be paid to do it, it should be people who have the relevant skills and experience.

My English cousin spent a season fruit picking during lockdown when there were less migrant workers.

He is in his 20s and physically fit. It was extremely demanding work (physically). Most people on benefits wouldn’t be physically fit enough - it makes far more sense for the farms to employ young, fit migrant workers who are experienced and skilled in fruit picking.

Also the migrant workers lived on the farm in pretty appalling conditions. He also had to live on the farm but was given a nicer tent.

Most people can’t leave all their responsibilities and go and live on a farm for the whole summer working dawn till dusk (or commute 2-3 hours each way) - even if they were physically able, which most people on benefits won’t be.

That should give you a clear answer OP, I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt of assuming it was a genuine question.

when there are so many unemployed and on benefits

er why do you think there are so many unemployed?