Why aren't people on benefits be asked to pick fruit? Why bring in immigrants?

[quietandcomplex]

Can someone explain to me why, when there are so many unemployed and on benefits, they aren't picking fruit for the farmers? Why bring immigrants into the country to do the job? This is not a political or racist or anything other post, it does not make sense to me, what am I missing?

You’re right.

No idea why MN haven’t deleted such a prejudiced and divisive thread.

Also fruit and flower picking is hard back breaking work, long hours with early starts, a repetitive task where you need physical and mental strength to plow on.

British aren’t cut out for it.

These people exist but are a tiny number. Unemployment at the moment is around 3.5%. Of them, many will be older; have disabilities that mean they can work, but not pick fruit; will have caring responsibilities; will not live near a farm; will be experienced people with trades looking for jobs; etc etc etc etc.

You're probably looking at a pool of literally a few thousand people. There is no workable idea here at all. Batshit fucking mental and typical benefits bashing.

Also as a pp said the "motivation" the migrant workers have isn't some inherent trait, its pure economics.

Yep but many chose to believe the incorrect narrative, that many immigrants are a drain on the state. Many Polish have gone home or to other countries eg Germany because it's better economically now.

Looking at our economy & ageing population we are in much need of skilled migrants

That was it. Thanks.

In 2020 there were thousands of brute who applied to work on the farms when it was reported that there was a shortage of workers. The vast majority were ignored, especially the ones who didn't need to live onsite and therefore be paid mms.
As young teenagers me and my brother used to go potato picking during the school holidays. The work was back breaking

Most long term unemployed are unemployable & short term unemployed, will soon want & find another FT job, the 3.7% figure is a churn of people.

Below MW ? thats down to greedy farmers, middlemen, supermarkets and lack of enforcement by UK Govt.

Some unemployed people are lazy and wastes of space. I've known plenty from working in a job centre. People who whine about 'poles' taking jobs, yet refusing to do the same jobs because it's 'beneath' them. People who happily state they would rather get benefits than work. They'll do the bare minimum of job searches to get their money and by god do they whine about doing that too. They'll eventually get a job, and do everything possible to get fired. I've had employers tell me that the person I sent to them arrived late to an interview, wearing pyjamas. They do it deliberately to not get hired. They have every excuse and every trick to not work.

You can tell the good ones from the bad ones so easily. Thankfully there aren't many bad ones, but they do exist. Don't believe me? Go work in a job centre for a week or two. You'll see them all then and you'll also see why they would be useless at fruit picking. They couldn't do any job you give them. Well they could, but they refuse to. They see it as their right to not work.

Which "benefits" are you referring to here? Or are you referring to anyone receives a payment from the goverment... including pensioners, the long-term sick/disabled, people with children and the newly unemployed who are looking for work.

In any case, farmers want skilled workers to pick their fruit in order to minimise waste. There's a reason you pay a premium to tramp all over an orchard to "pick your own" apples or strawberries!

Let's not forget the EU paid our UK farmers a premium not so long ago to burn their orchards down (and to sign an agreement not to use the land for crops in future). The fact that many of them did so tells you how much profit there is in it.

But hey, we can all buy Spanish and New Zealand apples instead! Woo hoo!

Quite a few on benefits already have a job.

Perhaps, in turn, read my entire post and think about the whole thing not just the part where I mentioned your helpful contribution to this debate. I've read the whole thread and agree with some, have said 'hmmm I didn't know that' and 'oh I disagree with that'. what I haven't done is add some throwaway, professionally offended sentence but tried to construct complete paragraphs that explain why I think what I think.

Perhaps that spare boat you are trying to get rid of could be used to transport people across country where they can harvest crops for less than NMW, lose their homes because they are not resident and of course - lets send their children into care because they can't go with parents for a few weeks agricultural work.

Most people on benefits are already working - we spend a fortune in taxes subsidising employers who don't pay a living or consistent wage and subsidising landlords through housing benefit.

If you want to cut the benefits bill, then employers need to pay enough for people to survive on that money.

Oh God that workfare scheme. Tesco did well out of it, free labour, no wage to pay. Cant remember the full details now but basically once a person had worked the time and had to be taken on as paid staff, they were replaced by the next person.

Other companies used the scheme too but tesco was the biggest?

Things about making people pick fruit aside from wages, benefits will stop, can take weeks to restart, how do you pay for your current accommodation while living at the farm, as job seekers is such a tiny amount anyway you dont have any spare to buy food for your first week in job( let's be honest it's hard work, will need plenty of food) let alone pay rent and other bills while away. So you could end up homeless after the fruit season.

I am old enough to remember the days the farmer put on a free bus to get his workers to the fields, but now those closest to the farms might not need a job so the bus would have to go further to reach more people and I think farms are much bigger and a single bus load of workers wont be enough.

Aside from all that, the unemployment rate is the lowest it's ever been, not all unemployed are suitable for working in fields (a friend is two years from retirement, cant get a job, is on job seekers until she can claim pension, would not be able to do fruit picking even if she lived near a farm)

Plenty of unemployed have been thrown off disability and have to go through the process to get back on it, they were on disability because amazingly they were disabled.
I haven't looked at the stats recently, but most people on unemployment are literally waiting to start the next job. From memory something like 4% of unemployed will stay on it long term. The rest who claim benefits are either working so how will they find time to work in the fields or retired and unlikely to want to work in the fields

Exactly. Economists would describe what we have at the moment as 'full employment' (though obviously not literally everyone is employed).

On a structural level, it's a big part of why we're in the shit at the moment, with inflation getting on for double figures. People have money, but can't find the goods and services to spend it on - demand outstrips supply, so prices go up. So wages go up...

You know the vast majority of benefits claimants are employed right?

Absolute clown.

😂lol at the sitting on it. But yes, you are right they would.

I’m not talking about the millions on benefit who work full time and claim benefit/disabled/elderly. I’m taking about the thousands of young, fit, lazy young people who simply CBA. I did make that clear in my post. It’s not a benefit bashing post.

I vote Labour, I’m not a Tory. We are very lucky this country has a benefit system and NHS and other free services that people use all the time without thinking how much it costs in other countries. There are people who deserve more- full time carers (who actually care for someone) get an absolute pittance. The country is a shambles. If you are young and fit to work then they should bring back the three job offers and either choose one or benefits cease.

I agree with the first part of your post. However, those who are long term unemployed should be made to do some volnteering of some sort. I know of a family who are proud to never have worked. They have three kids so 'it's not worthwhile going to work', despite them all being at school. It's frustrating!

Fruit farmers make their money selling to wholesalers and supermarkets by volume of fruit picked, and margins are tight especially as supermarkets have all the power in the negotiations and will push the prices they are willing to pay down and down. However, it's against the law for a farmer to pay a fruit picker by volume of fruit picked. They have to pay at least a base rate of NMW.

So the farmer's business is only viable if they can find physically fit, motivated, preferably experienced fruit pickers who are willing to do the work for low wages, which can be even lower if some of it is paid in accommodation and living expenses etc. Immigrants workers met those criteria but most of those currently on unemployment benefits would not. (And as PP have pointed out, most people on benefits aren't solely on benefits because of unemployment).

Mostly they are unemployed or on benefits because they can’t work. A fraction probably also simply don’t want to work (we all know someone like this). To make any of them do so is akin to sending to a work camp. is that the kind of society you want?

Just picking a punnet of ' pick your own strawberries ' has my back creaking. God knows how people do it for hours on end, day in, day out.

Because contrary to popular belief - fruit picking is actually a skilled job. If the average Joe Bloggs were to pick apples for example - you can bet that they would all end up brusied and wouldn't make it to the supermarkets. You should give it a go. You would be surprised at how careful you have to be - and also at how physically hard the job is.

Also, most people don't live near the farms. Or they have caring responsibility's that mean that mean that could only do 9-5/have to be home overnight so couldn't relocate for a few weeks etc.

You then have the added complexity that the picking window is very short. So people would have to move around different farms every couple of weeks (again - most likely miles from where they live).

Back in the day mothers also used to take their children with them (leaving them playing at the end of a row while they picked). Not something you could do now with health and safety laws.

Because we're all lazy and don't want to pick fruit. We'd rather sit on our arses for our 70quid a week or whatever it is.

And fat. We're all fat too.

I did mean able bodied, healthy people not looking after kids or parents etc.
Thanks for your comments, I did not know farmers don't have to pay minimum wage so long as they offer accommodation and travel. Comments relating to information about benefits, I did know, thank you.

360k long term unemployed.
If you've known plenty of them, you've worked in a deprived area and that has biased your experience.

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/employmentintheuk/march2021