Why aren't people on benefits be asked to pick fruit? Why bring in immigrants?

[quietandcomplex]

Can someone explain to me why, when there are so many unemployed and on benefits, they aren't picking fruit for the farmers? Why bring immigrants into the country to do the job? This is not a political or racist or anything other post, it does not make sense to me, what am I missing?

Basically if you want British people to do agricultural work, there needs to be an infrastructure to allow that, given that most farms are not located where most people live, the work is seasonal and our food market relies on incredibly low margins. We don't now have that infrastructure. This was true even before the general labour shortage kicked in.

The actually rather small number of people who are physically able to do this work, currently unemployed and not tied to their current locations due to other factors such as caring responsibilities is not the answer.

If their kids are over 5 they will be expected to spend 35 hours a week minimum looking for and preparing for work. If they don't they get sanctioned and their money stopped.

It isn't so easy to game the system, the DWP spend billions every year to stop poor.people.getting £10 more than they should.

I think we should bring back workhouses and Victorian sewers myself!

@AyeUpMeDuck I can promise you that they don't spend 35 hours a week looking for work. They spend their time in their garden shouting at each other, smoking and drinking with their friends 😡

I don't know whether OP is on a wind up or not, but it is interesting how long it's taking some people to get their heads round the reality that we have a labour squeeze in the UK now. That there aren't easy fixes, nor significant pools of untapped labour that we can simply oblige to move where we need them. The idea that there are great numbers of healthy young potential workers claiming benefits due to idleness who are available to be pushed into work happily and profitably ever after is a strangely enduring one.

Agree.
People have to give as well as take from the wider society.

^this... we've still got the Victorian sewers, so all we need is the Work house.

Would save billions in housing benefit too & their children could be relocated to live on farms to become the next generation of fruit pickers etc.

If Sunak comes out with this policy, he'll be our next PM and justly so.

This is what Mussolini did, well it was building railways not picking fruit but same principle.

@Hothammock

i don’t think having a pet cat is a reasonable barrier to work

Isn't the point though that they should be?

You mean employ them? Yep, happy with that.

Are you willing for your taxes to go up to pay them, then? Or do you just expect them to work for a couple of quid an hour, like the scum you clearly consider them to be?

It's a skilled job, for low pay. They tried it and could not get enough British people

Most people on benefits already have full time jobs.

No one has said its a barrier to a regular job. Moving away from your home into caravans or portacabins to pick fruit for the summer though is not a normal job, would you give up your pets etc for a temporary, under NMW job or just your jsa money if this horrible theoritical is based on the workfare shite.

If fruit is off the table, perhaps we could pick oakum? Surely the government can think of some useful things to do with tarry old bits of rope and then we could be productive and punished for not being productive simultaneously!

Unemployment rate is currently 3.8%. Benefit scrounging is not the 'big issue' you think it is.
In any case, we live in a democracy not some kind of Soviet/North Korean labour camp society.
By all means support people to be productive in society as much as feasible, but enforced transportation to farms....no.
Reasons for long-term unemployment are mainly down to social and health factors, not laziness. These people are vulnerable. I want to live in a society where there is a safety net for these people, not a labour camp.

First of all, 'on benefits' doesn't necessarily mean 'unemployed'. Many working-age people on benefits are in low-paid, often insecure work. They may lose their jobs altogether if they bugger off for seasonal work; and that would hardly help matters. In any case, their problem is low pay, not unemployment.

Secondly, even if people are unemployed, fruit picking jobs are not always a practical idea. Many unemployed people are in poor health, and would not be suitable for such jobs. Most live in towns, far away from fruit farms, and, especially in these times of huge fuel costs, it might well cost them more to get to the fruit farms than they would earn; or if the government pay the travel costs, cost the taxpayer more than the benefits do. Not to mention what happens to their family responsibilities when they are away.

Covid decimated my business, I didn;t qualify for the self-employed support scheme, & currently receive £320 a month as my sole income @Brunilde.

How many hours fruit picking do you think I "should" do, & can you let me know how much money will be left after I have paid for transport & accommodation? Remember to take £97 off the that princely £320 first, because if I'm working, I have to find a way to pay council tax. Also, what happens about paying for my existing home & who does my domestic care duties when I am 300 miles away in a caravan?

Looking forward to your advice.

Best plan ever. Start with BJ.

Yes, people seem not to get that if they want a reliable British agricultural workforce so as to avoid the need for farm worker visas, that's going to need facilitating.

There'll need to be suitable permanent accommodation with the usual amenities, rather than an expectation that workers will live on site in caravans. There'll need to be an understanding that this work is seasonal, so it will either have to pay enough to allow workers to live off it in the off season too or the state will have to accept that they'll need full benefits access in those months and not fuck about with the payments. Things that will allow people to settle and make this their lives.

This was true even before the labour squeeze, but it's doubly so now. Otherwise people simply aren't going to choose this work over the other available options.

I think you should do the number of hours that would equate to a minimum wage role for the amount you receive, but I do not think that benefits should be reduced or you should be out of pocket. It should be a mandatory placement, within reason so not miles away etc, in a role you are able to do.

Out of interest how many minimum wage roles have you applied for in order to support yourself? In what sectors? Or are you waiting for your own business to recover or for a job which appeals to you?

I do not think people should have to right to be picky about what they do if they are supported by others. If that makes me a bitch so be it.

And if anyone tries to twist this to apply to disabled people or those receiving benefits whilst working I am not talking about them.

Are they then not taking paid jobs from others who are paid a proper wage?

I’m a benefit claimant. I’m not fruit picking because most farms are not wheelchair accessible.
if you like I can apply for a job fruit picking then sue them for discrimination when they turn me down? It would be terrible for the farmers and probably put them out of business but the compensation would be nice and might mean I can stop claiming ESA. Plus, it’d help the economy with all the legal work that would need doing.

These are actual peoples jobs though. If you somehow make the very few unemployed able to garden you will then put a gardner out of work.
Then there is equipment? Who will provide the equipment and protective clothing needed, where will it be stored, how will it get to the job site, how do the new gardeners get to job site? Who will pay insurance in case they get hurt? . Who will supervise, will the supervisor be paid a decent wage? I can see ructions if one person is paid and the rest do it for £77 a week, and I cant see many people wanting to supervise a bunch of people that dont even want to be there for no pay.

Also this whole lot will cost more money than just giving a few people £77 a week

They tried during lockdowns having non immigrant labour on fruit picking. It’s actually a pretty skilled job and it was found that local labour simply couldn’t pick fast enough before the fruit and vegetables started to go rotten. It’s not really a job where ‘anyone can do it’ and it’s pretty back breaking work