To think Britain is heading towards economical and social collapse

[Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase]

It feels like we are living in strange times, having come out of a global pandemic, the war in Ukraine and now the cost of living crisis and the added pressure from Brexit.

Ive barely slept tonight, worrying about what might happen with energy prices. I’ve heard the energy price cap is expected to rise to £3,850 in October. A few months ago I’m sure they predicting it would be £2,400 and that was horrifying enough.
Now I’m seeing people on the energy support Facebook group talking about monthly energy costs of £900 per month. It feels like this is escalating out of control very quickly and the Government are allowing us to sleepwalk into a disaster.

I realised tonight that if the price cap does keep increasing at the rate it has then what will happen to all the businesses once people can’t afford their energy bills anymore? They will probably increase their prices to try and cover their costs but that will drive down sales even more as people won’t have as much money to spend anymore. Eventually it will only be the essentials that we can afford so that surely means that all the other businesses won’t be able to afford to keep going?

Then what? Unless our government actually get their heads together about this then the whole country will end up in financial ruin and we will see the breakdown of society. Why so much focus on the leadership contest, surely that must take a back step.

Ive just checked the parliament website and the House of Commons has now gone into summer recess so they won’t meet again until September! I think this is an emergency situation and that they should be called back to focus on this. They get paid enough.

I think it’s outrageous that they can claim for utility bills on their expenses when there are people out there with young children who are worried about being cut off and put onto a prepayment meter.

You don’t think that’s a bit fucking ludicrous that somebody could end up in the amount of debt to so little ? Given there are non grads who are earning more ?

A big problem is the lack of homogeneity. There is no agreement over values: much of the country is divided into separate communities which all hate each other: and we economic disparities, expectations and opportunities are enormous, as @Nothappyatwork there demonstrates to most of the country outside London.

This, and the climate change issues, have been growing for decades. It’s not just current government: the economic forces were set in motion at the latest by Blair’s time, with mass globalisation and deregulation. Yes we are heading into socioeconomic collapse now, congratulations on finally noticing.

Go onto solar if you can afford it. BG have just dropped our bill to £40 a month due to low usage. Our repayments are just over £200pcm for 5 years for 14 panels and a battery. Had we not got the panels, BG were going to be charging us £300 a month anyway so it seemed like a no brainer 🤷‍♀️

KarmaComma - What I would do is read your meters every month and submit those readings then you will know exactly how much fuel you are using every month. This is what I do, it's so easy especially if you use the company's app. You may be able to reduce your dd this way, unless you want to build up credit for the winter months.

The NHS was not running efficiently until 2010. I worked for the NHS as a nurse from 1989 to 1997 and it was a very long way from efficiently run even then.

I can clearly remember bed shortages, cancellations, people on trolleys in corridors etc.

My DH and I were talking about this, this morning. In winter, our plan is essentially to live upstairs in the bedrooms in the evening and not to heat downstairs.

No baths and v short showers. I think we will have to change out lifestyles. It is a worry. There is no money left at the end of the month now so we just don't have the money to pay huge electricity and gas bills.

Junior doctors’ starting salary is less than £30k @Nothappyatwork. A nurse with an MSc - five years of study - starts on £25k. No idea why you mentioned porters.

You live in a rarified world where new graduates are paid £30k +. Most of us live in the real one.

Yup, some posters on here seem to genuinely think everyone else is coping with this better. They are not, we are all going to suffer from wholesale energy price increases and food becoming more expensive. India for example banned grain exports the other month (understandably so), nirtrogen shortages will make life extremely difficult for farmers and prices for food will probably stay high for a while. The EU has agreed a 15% cut in energy usage (exceptions granted to some countries). Reality is you will probably see brownouts/blackouts across europe over the winter or restricted hours of usage while Putin tries to put pressure on everyone.

The government really does need to do something, like suspension of some taxes on energy. I’m not sure they can hang about much longer waiting for a new leader to be in place. Would be better for Truss and Sunak to thrash out an agreement on energy and implement it soon.

*The benefit of being quite old is that you live through several of these crisis events and realise that they always pass.

National strikes, the Cold War, black Monday, recessions, stock market crashes, housing crashes, falklands conflict, miners strikes. I am not saying any of this to minimise how people feel because it is an awful and worrying time and of course covid was an unprecedented event, but I suppose just to try to put this into perspective - we will manage, it will pass*

l disagree. I’ve lived through all those and I’ve never known anything like this. I think we are in dangerous times.What if it’s a cold winter? How are places like hospitals and schools were people are mainly sat or lying still going to cope? Will they close?

The government needs to really get their act together and publish some sort of strategy instead of dicking about. I’d people don’t buy anything the economy will collapse and I and every one l know has stopped buying everything but essentials. Hospitality hasn’t fully recovered from Covid, and it’s about to get hammered again.

There should be a national government and a strategy to address it all, and the press just bicker about earrings.

@Rinatinabina what is a brown out? Is it like a blackout, but some of the lights stay on?

Totally agree. I worked in the NHS from 1986-1997 and it was horrendous. I have never worked in such unsafe conditions. I still have nightmares.

Funnily enough 1997 to 2010 was the term of the last Labour government, and also funnily enough the NHS functioned much better.

My record in that time was from referral by GP to discharge with a new hip replacement - 4 weeks.

Also in that time, 98%+ of patient being seen and treated in ED within 4 hours, and a fraction of the numbers of partients awaiting housing, Rehab or social care beds.

I think we’re heading for recession, US apparently did hit recession this month. I think there are solutions to the immediate problems but we need a bold government, none are without pain.
i think if Rishi wins we get an awful recession, as he’s planning cuts in spending plus tax rises.
If Truss wins, increased government spending might minimise recession but inflation will rise as her plans for tax cuts plus spending increases must mean government borrowing and/or printing money.

If I was in charge I’d nationalise the energy providers and windfall tax the energy producers, minimise the increase to actual prices as much as possible. Increase investment in renewables and subsidise a program of increased insulation. I’d ban new homes from having gas installed and make maximum insulation mandatory. I’d increase top rate tax to pay for it.

With NHS I’d reform pension rules (which Truss has said she’ll look at) so retired HCP can return to work if they wish without penalty and consultants can do additional work without being hit by massive tax bills. That won’t solve all the problems but would be a start.

Id also seek to rejoin customs union to allow improved trade with EU.

Totally agree @ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I have lived through all sorts but things are looking really bleak, and the tories fanny around talking about bullshit tax cuts that won’t make much difference. I truly hate them for what they are about to inflict on the people.

And if we have a winter like 2018 it would be unimaginably awful.

@Babyroobs me too. I don't have many these days but I call them my 'nursing nighmares'. I typically dream I am back in nursing, usually on a ward, sometimes theatre and all I can think of is why am I here again, I left this shit a long time ago 😂

Foundation years 1 and 2 for doctors are a £28,000 plus but the doctor is still training. When they specialize after 2 years it’s over £40,000. They are still junior doctors at that point. The pay scales make the grades snd pay clear.

To give some figures illustrating why the UK is particularly vulnerable right now, net average monthly salary adjusted for living costs by purchasing power:

Germany $3905
Ireland $4043
France $3305
Spain $3141
Denmark $4361
Sweden $3626
UK $2897

Also, other similar countries have larger gross salaries, higher taxes, therefore much more state power to support households through this period. The UK will see the result of a low tax, low wage, small state ideology in practice, where it hurts. I’m so over this country.

Contracts were awarded for increased offshore wind generation that will add 7GW of extra capacity by 2026.

Another one wondering why this matters.

Last I read, Scotland produces enough renewable energy to power 100% of households.

Except it really doesn't as our bills are going up exactly the same as everyone else's.

I’d increase top rate tax to pay for it.

I think we are going wrong focusing on only income tax personally.

Please don't peddle conspiracy theories. Giving them numbers doesn't make them real.

Smooththecat - A lot of families in the UK get tax credits as well, or is that included in that figure?

Indeed. In fact UK exported record amount of electricity to France in July....... I assume we charged them handsomely for it!

In the long term it will matter. We will be 100% renewable, so we don't have to reply on gas to generate electricity. No carbon usage, no exposure to world market volatility. The current problem is, and this is being resolved with clever technology, but that the wind doesn't always blow when you want it, and we can't store it, so when we have an excess we either export it, or have to shut down the turbines.

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head there I think. That is a general cultural problem that is going to make solving the economic problems much more difficult. And it's not helped by the fact that the government has a vested interest in stoking division in order to stay in power, exacerbated by our dysfunctional electoral system.

The problem is that when it comes to climate change in particular, forceful, definitive action on a mass coordinated scale is no longer a philosophical question to debate the merits and demerits of, but something that we can either do or accept our own extinction.

Currently the right is winning the culture war, but it's going to be a phyrric victory. They have no effective solution to climate change within the free market framework, and no solution to the economic malaise that doesn't require just accepting that a bunch of people are going to starve and freeze. By the time people realise that some things (like survival) are more important than hating middle class London-centric identity politics, it will be too late. It's probably already too late.

Mamamia, The data is from IMF and OECD. It’s more about purchasing power and comparison of salaries between countries. The UK as a whole generally has lower salaries, lower taxes and therefore less ability to provide a social safety net, tax credits would be included in that.