To think Britain is heading towards economical and social collapse

[Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase]

It feels like we are living in strange times, having come out of a global pandemic, the war in Ukraine and now the cost of living crisis and the added pressure from Brexit.

Ive barely slept tonight, worrying about what might happen with energy prices. I’ve heard the energy price cap is expected to rise to £3,850 in October. A few months ago I’m sure they predicting it would be £2,400 and that was horrifying enough.
Now I’m seeing people on the energy support Facebook group talking about monthly energy costs of £900 per month. It feels like this is escalating out of control very quickly and the Government are allowing us to sleepwalk into a disaster.

I realised tonight that if the price cap does keep increasing at the rate it has then what will happen to all the businesses once people can’t afford their energy bills anymore? They will probably increase their prices to try and cover their costs but that will drive down sales even more as people won’t have as much money to spend anymore. Eventually it will only be the essentials that we can afford so that surely means that all the other businesses won’t be able to afford to keep going?

Then what? Unless our government actually get their heads together about this then the whole country will end up in financial ruin and we will see the breakdown of society. Why so much focus on the leadership contest, surely that must take a back step.

Ive just checked the parliament website and the House of Commons has now gone into summer recess so they won’t meet again until September! I think this is an emergency situation and that they should be called back to focus on this. They get paid enough.

I think it’s outrageous that they can claim for utility bills on their expenses when there are people out there with young children who are worried about being cut off and put onto a prepayment meter.

Wouldn't a huge nationalised investment in sustainable energy be better than renationalising gas, which is finite?

This is true. My husband lost his job. 12 weeks later got another one. All our savings wiped out and credit card is now £3k.

We are honestly shitting ourselves about all of this. We have no spare money anywhere - we've already had our rainy day.

@Eeksteek I agree

You have a point

There are huge profits which have tax reductions if invested

It may not need to be nationalised just redirected through incentives

The government just use one distraction after another to keep in the headlines whilst they systematically sell off the countries assets and make laws which take away our rights. Their libertarian mindset is creating an individualistic dog eat dog country.

The two statements contradict each other. Unless you mean they're creating a nanny state / removing our rights and freedoms while making things more libertarian for "the haves"... in which case I agree with you.

Global warming aside, the crony capitalism we have now is a total mess. And shifting towards socialism, or shifting towards libertarianism won't work because of the massive population scales we've created. Any change has to cover 68million people at minimum, and even then we have to consider we're living in a global economy.

I think the only way to reverse this slow (but steady) march toward collapse is with a complete overhaul of our system and a return to smaller, more self-sufficient and more self-governed communities, with "the state" as lean as possible and only existing to manage what absolutely cannot be managed at a local level.

How is that possible? What kind of house are you living in? Are you sure they are not overcharging you? My energy company switched me to another supplier and they were overcharging before they established my actual usage but it was (only) £200 per month. (Standard 3 bed semi - north of Scotland)

I live in a 3 bed semi in England. £400 is not my usage, it's the DD. Last year my energy provider (that I was paying £100 per month to and had been for several years) went bust and I was transferred to another, who then went bust just as everyone was getting wind of price rises and tying into fixed term deals. I was then moved to Shell, on flexible rate. Shell spent 5 months sorting my first bill, so while I was still paying my £100pm DD, my account went into debit while I was waiting for them. I don't have a smart meter yet (something about the mains supply box being too old and needing replacing first), so they've estimated that I need to pay £495 per month to pay off the debt (which was under £1k, fyi) as well as average out for winter usage (which they've guesstimated). I couldn't afford my mortgage as well as £495 energy so I agreed with them to pay somethjng a bit less than that.

If they've worked out my average usage correctly, I'll be totally screwed when the price cap rises. I don't run a tumble dryer, I have an efficient gas boiler, which hasn't been used for heating for the last 3/4 months, we only use gas to heat water (showers for family of 4 and kettle/washing machine). Our electricity use is up because we've all been home a lot more during pandemic and wfh more since then.

Yes, but so is most of Europe and the US.

Pandemic, Ukraine war and all its implications for energy supply and food supply, hostile interventions from Russia and China who will take advantage of the weakness of Western countries. Brexit might not help but really, if you read up, the whole of Europe is in the dod-doo at the moment. The UK isn't so dependent on (or so geographically close to!!) Russia for energy, but if Germany suffers economically as a result of its energy defecit etc, it's going to affect us all. Plus, of course, the concern about climate change and its impact.

It really is a worldwide problem.

You might, others might not!

I agree with you and wish more would take same global view but poorer countries are also very vulnerable- thankfully wheat seems to be moving out of Ukraine but without it food crisis is another element to be faced

My several experiences of civil unrest have involved seeing the destruction/looting of businesses in the local area (including family businesses, not chains) and the property of people who were not that well to do. It was those communities who were left with the exercise and cost of clean-up. Some of those businesses never recovered so areas without facilities were even worse off than before.

I would add that being tear-gassed is no picnic. The air quality from burning properties is poor and affects the health of many people. Living under curfew gets to be debilitating as do the problems with obtaining food etc.

So, I could stand knowing what sort of civil unrest some of my fellow citizens or residents in my local area would wish to support.

Money spent on children's facilities and school, supporting new families

We had that once, it was called Surestart. Then we had a change of government in 2010 and ideological austerity closed them all down. Same with the NHS, it was functioning efficiently and effectively until 2010 when it started being run down in preparation for privatisation.

@Tha

Global warming aside, the crony capitalism we have now is a total mess. And shifting towards socialism, or shifting towards libertarianism won't work because of the massive population scales we've created. Any change has to cover 68million people at minimum, and even then we have to consider we're living in a global economy.

Why is large population scale a problem for shifting towards socialism?

On the contrary, the ability to coordinate actions over a large population is precisely one of the advantages of socialist institutions. An example being the NHS, which achieves high levels of efficiency relative to its funding - in comparison to other countries - partly by virtue of its huge purchasing power.

That's not to say that there aren't problems with socialist models, but scale isn't one of them. This often seems particularly pertinent to me in addressing climate change, where the ability to initiate huge sustainable changes very quickly, that will involve and affect EVERYONE, is literally necessary for survival. Regardless of where you stand on the general philosophy of them, socialism is surely a much better "fit" for achieving that than free market capitalism.

There’s been some interesting reddit posts re civil unrest by women in regard to abortion laws. Basically the gist was everyone withdraw all the money they hold in the banking system at once.

im not sure how that work, I remember the northern rock runs in 2997 was it?

I think this poster was trying to be encouraging to be fair, rather than down playing the worries of others.
I'm currently going through a tough time, and having someone tell me "you will get through it" just gives me that bit of hope and encouragement/ reassurance I need.

Aargh 2008!

It’s a complex mix

Incebtuves such as tax breaks re-route investment so it’s not impossible to have private head in direction you’d like to see

On a small level I heard about D printers the other day which will take x10 prints each time and wash off - the motivation behind that individual/ team is expertise rewarded by finance

The very fast vaccine was a good example of state and private working well together too

The OP is right to be concerned. The lack of proportionate government action to tackle the energy crisis is already affecting the economy because a substantial number of households that are better off are cutting back on spending. I can pay the raised energy cost just about, although it sickens me to do so when energy company profits are so high.

To give you an example, I have for about 3 years sold a service as a side hussle, which paid for our treats and extras. Sales faltered when the rise in energy costs became apparent back in the spring and haven’t recovered. So although I can still pay my bills, with less income, I no longer go to coffee shops or order takeaways at all. I only eat out very occasionally, for a celebration. This all has a knock on effect for those businesses and other people’s livelihoods. I feel bad for people in catering but we all have our priorities.

You’ve done five years of university education to end up on 30 grand a year ? I have 20-year-olds at our place who are out earning you already. You’re gonna come in with all the debt and be managed by them.

maybe we will have a shift away from this kind of nonsense in the future and that will help society enormously.

KarmaComma
Obviously, as a family of 4 and some arrears you’d be paying more than me but I would keep a very close eye on your usage and what they’re charging you. I do really know why my account was moved and I thought the new supplier were a bunch of shysters charging £200 a month. But at the end of March, I was able to reclaim the balance on my account and, at the end of June, having given an accurate reading, was able to put my direct debit down to £100 and did it all on-line. I don’t think smart meters are the holy grail- I’ve known people with them who’ve still experienced billing problems.

You’ve done five years of university education to end up on 30 grand a year ?

There are lots of people with highly responsible jobs in that particular boat - nurses, junior doctors, social workers, teachers. Not everyone works in an industry foolish enough to overpay new graduates.

Junior doctor start on more than £30,000 a year and nobody can work their way up from a porter to a junior doctor, so clearly that’s not what I’m referring to.

nurses, social workers and teachers do not need five years of university education on a full-time basis. Given the post to refers to the fact that she doesn’t have children yet one would have to question why is it taken five years to qualify and indeed that will be asked at interview.

You’ve done five years of university education to end up on 30 grand a year ? I have 20-year-olds at our place who are out earning you already. You’re gonna come in with all the debt and be managed by them

So

Do you know the median income in this country?

Do you know how this media varies between parts of the UK?

@VeganPesto absolutely no reflection or criticism of you by the way just how ludicrous the whole thing has become in terms of the amount of debt people are carrying in order to perform non-graduate jobs.

*median, not media

One thing that doesn’t receive enough airtime is the the UK is a low wage economy compared to similar countries. This makes us particularly vulnerable right now. If I have the option, I’m going to leave.