To say suck it up like the rest of us???

[ticktickticktickBOOM]

I come from a socialist family, we had striking miner's kids living with us for respite during the strikes. However, the railway unions are taking the pee aren't they? Transport workers aren't the only people taking a hit right now. What about the 100's of thousands of hospitality, leisure, carer and charity workers in bars, cafe's, restaurants, theme parks, swimming pools, hotels, campsites, working in supporting all our children and elderly relatives etc that are getting between tiny and zero wage increases yet have no option but to carry on and make ends meet. Why can't railway workers see the problems they are going to cause and why can't they see that they are IN THE SAME BOAT AS EVERYONE ELSE (except the wealthy obvs).

YABU - striking railway workers are more deserving of pay increases than the rest of us

YANBU - we need to pull together and see every member of society through this and not cause each other harm

You didn't really absorb much from your 'socialist family' if you don't understand why there are strikes.

@Iamthewombat

Lol.

I didnt lose any argument. But if you need to tell yourself that to feel better, thats OK.

@Iamthewombat
As I’ve explained several times, it’s about the veracity of a contract. That piece of paper that you sign and agree to the terms of your job. That means that your employer has to abide by it as well. So you know what you can expect to get paid and the conditions that you will work under.

Many companies have changed from final salary pensions to average ones over the years. Usually for new starters, rather than forcing changes into existing staff. Sometimes by capping the final salary pension at a specific date, and starting a new one on a different basis. However, in those cases, employees are usually compensated for the loss of future income.

In the same way that hourly supplemented rates are changed. Eg if you work in a certain supermarket and started before 1993 (or something like that) you will be paid double time for Sundays and bank holidays. If you started working for them between 1993 and 2006, you will be getting time and a half. Start date between 2006 and 2017, you will be receiving time plus 10%. And if you are a new starter you will be on base rate for those hours.

Recently, the same supermarket decided that having night teams in, cost too much in night premiums. They have decided to cut staff from night teams and close the stores. The result, staff were offered redundancy or a day job plus compensation for a change in hours/ rate of pay.

My understanding was one of the big issues was about staff/passenger safety - lone working in isolated/unsociable hours and unmanned areas.

If I'm wrong, I'm happy to be contradicted. But I'm more than happy with people striking to uphold safety.

Yabu. I’m public sector and pay rise we have been offered is a pittance. Our union threatened to strike and the employer is negotiating with them- possibly because of impact of the transport sector strikes.

It’s not a race to the bottom and those hiding their wealth in offshore accounts have no interest in “pulling together”.

@Iamthewombat - Instead of anecdotal evidence here's a few facts that might help you understand just how difficult things are in schools at the moment. As you can see, it's not just people talking about leaving, they actually are.

www.pressreader.com/uk/yorkshire-post/20220708/281852942276644

From what I can tell things are even worse within healthcare and the NHS. I would find you some facts and figures here too but get the feeling you are more than capable of finding them for yourself if you give it a go. I don't think there's much point in trying to pretend all is well within these sectors when clearly it isn't. Do you?

I don’t think that anyone has claimed that all is well in teaching, have they? What I noted was that the only thing that will force pay rises for TAs and teachers is an exodus from the profession. Since only STEM teachers are receiving supplements at the moment, the evidence suggests that the exodus for other subjects, and for TAs, isn’t happening.

As it goes, I agree that TAs earn a pittance. So do nursery nurses. The problem is that nobody wants to pay more to improve the lot of these people, who, let’s face it, are mostly women. Parents don’t want to pay higher nursery fees and taxpayers moan that they already pay too much tax, as we have seen on this thread. That’s what has to change. Strike action won’t make that happen. Nor will high demand for those roles, low paid though they are.

Incidentally, we may disagree but you are capable of arguing civilly, which I appreciate!

Yes this.

Have said YABU but your statement for YABU is unreasonable. A group striking doesn't have to mean that they're saying they deserve something more. Just that they deserve it. Other groups can also choose to strike. And they are.

No, you are wrong about NHS and civil service pension schemes transitioning to career average, I’m afraid. Only people within a couple of years of retirement got to keep the old terms. Everyone else moved to the new terms.

Re the shift allowances etc that you say that rail workers will lose: were they actually enshrined in the contract of employment? You may find that they were not. If they were, you will have been offered something in exchange. What was it? It’s rather disingenuous to pretend that something contractual has been unilaterally withdrawn. It won’t have been. But, as with the pension, we’re only getting half the story from you.

Oh dear. Take a gaviscon for the bile.

I much prefer civil arguments too! My point is that unfortunately the government don't seem to be responding as they should when it comes to a staff exodus which I think is genuinely happening both within education and the NHS. They seem to be instead ignoring it and letting everything fall apart which is genuinely starting to scare me a bit. If it takes strike action to alert them to how serious the problems are now getting then maybe that's better than letting things deteriorate as they are? As with the railways, it's not all about money. It's about safeguarding and genuinely looking after people they way they need and deserve to be cared for.

So no-one in any industry should ever strike till every other industry is striking too?

Bosses and Tories would love that.

YABU - why shouldn’t working people enjoy a decent wage and standard of living? Well done to the RMT for representing their workers interests, as they are supposed to. Other unions should follow suit. Why should any workers put up with declining pay in real terms? Joining a union and engaging in collective action is an entirely reasonable way for workers to secure a decent wage. Indeed, it is the only course of action available- or do you think they should beg the masters?

Because doing that would just result in services being cut the the people we're supporting ending up out of work

@Iamthewombat

So much for civility eh?

I havent ranted, been spiteful, uncivil or shown bile.

You just can't counter what I've said.

Come back when you have an actual solution

@Iamthewombat
I am going to walk away, as it’s clear that you haven’t been following the dispute, or have any understanding of the implications that the situation will have for every one of us. I wish you the best of luck if you ever find yourself without a contract worth the paper it’s written on,

It’s all out there. Educate yourself.

I do t know who you think you are or where you think this is. It’s a forum. If you want to evidence your posts like a PHD crack on. You haven’t so you’ve a bloody cheek to ask others so aggressively.

Au contraire. I understand the RMT’s position rather too well, and can see through the propaganda.

Incidentally, since you thought that Network Rail was a private TOC, I’d be a bit careful of telling other posters that they ‘have no understanding’.

I’ve just caught up on all the posts. Maybe less time on MN may help some posters.

Wow you call yourself a socialist...

You are being SPECTACULARLY unreasonable!

i can’t say I think they are wrong to be striking. I think they have a point. You’ve share holders making massive profits, bosses on huge wages and workers on tax credits or needing to use food banks. It’s madness.
they are unionised and can strike. Many can’t.

@Womenandwomenfirst you can decide that it is not about passenger safety but have you read the proposed changes in terms of maintenance? The dispute is not only with TOCs and about on board/station staff. NR is already struggling:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-62290811

Vegetation, which the Brits love to roll their eyes about is a huge problem and Salisbury could have been much worse. You can read about the cause here:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1055846/IR012022_220221_Salisbury_Tunnel_Junction.pdf

There should also be some recognition that the changes being proposed to NR working conditions are significant. Unsociable hours will be hugely increased and this has an impact on the health of NR employees and represents a risk factor for safety by way of increased fatigue.

@Iamthewombat I have a career average pension not a final salary pension as a TOC frontline employee who has previously been in RMT.

Haven't RTFT but yabu for your voting options.

One of the biggest issues with the railways is that prices are going up and up yet the money isn't going to the workers but the people at the top instead.
The other industries you mention are actually struggling and there isn't the money there

Very different situations

A prime example is the train that ran into the overhead lines at Birmingham New Street due to the heat last week. The guard was praised for keeping everyone calm and getting them off the train safely when it became stuck in a tunnel.

One thing threatened is “guard free trains”. Watch the bloody carnage and chaos if this ever happened.