To say suck it up like the rest of us???

[ticktickticktickBOOM]

I come from a socialist family, we had striking miner's kids living with us for respite during the strikes. However, the railway unions are taking the pee aren't they? Transport workers aren't the only people taking a hit right now. What about the 100's of thousands of hospitality, leisure, carer and charity workers in bars, cafe's, restaurants, theme parks, swimming pools, hotels, campsites, working in supporting all our children and elderly relatives etc that are getting between tiny and zero wage increases yet have no option but to carry on and make ends meet. Why can't railway workers see the problems they are going to cause and why can't they see that they are IN THE SAME BOAT AS EVERYONE ELSE (except the wealthy obvs).

YABU - striking railway workers are more deserving of pay increases than the rest of us

YANBU - we need to pull together and see every member of society through this and not cause each other harm

Also it's not true that we're low tax once you include National Insurance as well as Income Tax.

I don't agree with either of your options. As a rail passenger I'd like to travel in safety so I share the RMT's concerns about station staffing. I'm also concerned at the massive profits some companies are looting from the taxpayers and the rail industry

How would my losing a personal pension increase rail workers’ salaries? Are you the one who thought that Network Rail was a private business making ‘obscene profits’?

Re pay cuts, anyone whose annual pay rise is below inflation is accepting an effective pay cut. That’s how maths works. Who do you know that is getting a 10% pay rise? I’m in the private sector and pay increases are being restricted, as you would expect.

It is. Look at what the Dutch, the French, the Germans and the Scandinavians are paying. Much more than us. They pay health insurance too.

It shouldn’t come as a shock to you that a rail business’s profits improved the year after a pandemic. I read the link. Which also tells you that a big chunk of the profit for the year to March 2022 came from selling off European businesses unconnected with U.K. railways. That’s what businesses do when they need to raise cash.

None of which qualifies as ‘obscene’. Even with the profit on disposal for the year to March 2022, which has nothing to do with profits from running U.K. railways, their pre-tax profit margin was 11.6%. That is not ‘obscene’.

That doesn’t surprise me. Whilst not all of our government departments are fit for purpose, there are some clever people in the Department for Transport’s commercial team. Have you ever seen one of the contracts for private sector providers to supply services to government? They aren’t written in crayon and signed off with ‘be kind’. They are full of service credit and gain share provisions. They might not be perfect contracts, but they aren’t written or managed by idiots. To suggest that the people responsible are incapable rather insults them, don’t you think?

(No, I am not one of them!)

Their incomes are much higher. We are an extremely high tax country in comparison to other countries because our salaries are so low. They take a a high percentage of a much lower salary.

@Iamthewombat

You are blaming those at the bottom.

You're saying its their fault for wanting better wages and theh should put up and shut up rather than tackle the wealth divide

@Iamthewombat

Wages are not being cut in the private sector.

I think they rose on average by about 3 -5% this year.

And that's obviously including the huge wage increases for those in the 1%

Show us the maths, then. With evidence.

Nope, that is not what I said. Don’t let me stop you ranting, though.

Which public sector roles have had their pay cut? Do share. With evidence.

@Iamthewombat

I'm not ranting.

And it is what you're saying

You're not suggesting those at the top take pay cuts or reduce profits to curb inflation.

Your solution is that those at the bottom should remain on low wages

@Iamthewombat

Zero or below inflation pay rises for more than a decade is a pay cut

I thought we were talking about private sector increases? How did you get to public sector cuts?

This.

I think there should be more strikes personally. Better than having the government and large corporations taking the piss as they currently are. We all will suffer from inaction in the long run unless we make our position clear now. As long as we let people get away with fucking up the economy and creaming off profits for themselves, then the more it will happen.

The NHS is in a state and people work above and beyond to prop it up because it is hard to walk away from people that need you. They exploit this and people's good nature. This needs to stop.

Because you said that private sector wages hadn’t been cut, implying that somebody’s had. I think you are confused by the difference between an actual pay cut and an effective pay cut.

An actual pay cut means that your salary is reduced: the numbers on your pay slip go down. An effective pay cut means that inflation outstrips the % pay increase. By the latter measure, everyone awarded less than 10% this year has had a pay cut. Yes, including the private sector. You quote average private sector pay increases of 3% to 5% upthread. Tell me that you didn’t think that that was on top of inflation?

@Iamthewombat

Those at the top have been getting huge increase. Much more than inflation.

So, no, not all private sector wages are being restricted

That was the point

This 1%, or ‘those at the top’, are not representative of the private sector, any more than the chief exec of HS2 (salary circa £600k) is representative of the public sector. I don’t understand why you are fixating on how good the private sector apparently have it. What does that have to do with rail strikes?

A poster upthread claimed that widespread strike action would help eg nurses and teachers ‘catch up with the private sector’. That’s pretty naive. Loads of private sector workers earn less than public employees. They have less bargaining power, too. During the tube strike, who were the people queuing for buses in the rain? Some of them were people employed in retail, hospitality and security. Probably on insecure contracts and low pay. I’m sure that they would be amused to learn that they are viewed as people to ‘catch up with’.

@Iamthewombat

Your solutions involve not doing anything to tackle wealth inequality and blaming those with the least.

Youre saying the lowest paid will just have to keep their low pay so as not to upset the highest paid

Fuck that

If high wages are cause soaring interest rates, start at the top. Not the bottom

For @EinsteinaGogo and anyone else on here asking why they can't run the trains but not charge fares: that is illegal, as the poor sod who runs the RMT's twitter account has to point out on a regular basis. Blame Tory anti-union legislation.

Iamthewombat
I asked whether you would accept a pay cut in your monthly take home pay packet, and a slashed pension, because that’s what the rail workers are being asked to agree to.

a 5% payrise on base rate, is not a pay rise at all, when you make a lot of your pay packet on late night and weekend subsidies. Currently, someone working a 5 day week, including Sunday, May be earning gross £30,000/ year. After the proposed changes, that same person, working the same days, would have their gross pay cut to around £28,600. With rising living costs, that’s not acceptable to most people.

Not to mention the pensions that they are proposing decimating.

I’d be striking as well

And if the rail workers lose, our own contracts will be next on the list. Self interest alone, should have ALL workers supporting this strike.

Change the record. I said nothing about ignoring wealth inequality. Nor have I ‘blamed those with the least’.

In fact, I suggested raising tax and stimulating the economy to provide more quality and well-paid jobs. But, as before, don’t let that stop you ranting.

You remind me of some of the Socialist Worker Party members I met when I was a student. Some of them were genuinely good, principled people. Others were ranty, hated everyone and were keen to condemn anyone with an opinion different to theirs.

@Iamthewombat

You keep denying saying what you have, it's a bit odd

You've suggested raising tax for everyone while scoffing at the idea that we should tackle tax evasion

You keep tone policing and getting personal rather than countering the actual point so ill leave it there

It’s so silly continuing to cite the wealthiest in society as a reason to strike. Most people are not investment bankers. Most private sector workers do not earn a bomb and certainly do not enjoy the perks of a public sector job.

The inflation argument would suggest that all of us should strike for a pay rise practically continuously.

The rail unions lack my sympathy because, having seen their wages and conditions, I think most employees are on a pretty good deal. Fwiw I believe in retaining guards, but I don’t believe for a microsecond the strike is about passenger safety.

No, you didn’t. You asked whether I’d be happy to ‘lose my personal pension’. That’s very different to having the terms of your very generous pension scheme adjusted slightly (‘slashed’ and ‘decimated’, as you put it: ever keen on drama!)

For anyone who doesn’t know, the Railways Pension Scheme and the TfL pension scheme are both final salary in nature. The holy grail of pension schemes. They are very expensive to run. An independent actuarial valuation found that both schemes will soon become too expensive to run. They suggested converting the scheme to career average.

Career average schemes are still very generous. The NHS and civil service moved over to that type of scheme at least ten years ago. But the RMT won’t accept it for their members. Oh no. Everyone else can jolly well subsidise their special scheme through general taxation.

That is the supposed ‘slashing’ and ‘decimating’ we’re being asked to sympathise with. For people who have a better scheme, even post changes, than most workers could dream of.

How do you square that with the bleating on this thread about the RMT striking for the rights of the poor?

What is more pernicious is the implied threat: support us and our demands, lest it happen to you. Most people don’t have those benefits to lose.

That is funny. You get spiteful and ranty, then you lose the argument and it’s someone else ‘getting personal’. I hope you aren’t conducting negotiations for your own union.