To think there is little incentive to work hard in the UK

[BeachTree]

Context. 30's, no kids, single, work full time.

Just a bit disheartened. I have never claimed benefits, or any type of support, I work hard to make sure I can support myself (Not disputing those who genuinely require benefits/support) I have always paid all my taxes, and national insurance. I expect by the time I reach retirement age, the 'state pension' may look very different to what it does now and may not be available despite having paid in my whole life.

I feel sometimes that I pay so much into the 'system' and get very little return and don't 'take' from it, whereas there are many people claiming every benefit possible, and constantly 'taking' from the system they don't pay into. There are so many ways to extract money from the system but only for those who don't work full time. I know someone who worked for about 1 or 2 year in late teens in the UK, then worked abroad for a number of years, during this time did not keep up with national insurance payments and obviously not paying UK tax as no in the country, also didn't pay tax in the country they resided in. Returned to England to have a baby on the NHS, now residing back in England, claiming benefits as a single parent for 2+ years, gets assistance with rent council tax etc despite having paid next to nothing in to the system. I cannot compute how this is fair.

For example the cost of living payment, people who claim benefits will get £650, where as those who work and do not claim benefits will get £400. The cost of living crisis affects all of us - perhaps more so the people who work their socks off and aren't 'entitled' to 'support' The system is backwards and not in favour of people who work full time to support our ridiculous benefit system. So many examples - ie. people get help with rent, council tax, working tax credits etc etc etc - however those who work get zero, zilch.

AIBU?

@CbaThinkingOfAUsername

I've seen your magic numbers on other benefits threads... Unless they're related to maternity leave (or some other special circumstances that I'm unaware of) your magic numbers are total bull*!

As a single mother I was on £1300 (plus child benefit) in total.
My rent for the most basic-box 80s flat was £750 until the landlord asked for £895 and I moved out straight after.
I was paying full council tax (because you do as soon as you earn the most basic minimum ).
My son was eating his free school meals.
I wasn't paying prescription charges.
We were getting holiday food vouchers.
And I'm grateful for the above!!

I didn't have a car, didn't drink/smoke, no subscriptions (no TV in fact! ), phone bill paid by a relative on a family contract, no broadband, no debts, never ever ordered a takeaway, never went on a holiday whilst on UC.
To my eternal shame, partial to avocados.

We were OK only because of my frugal ways. Something like a car would have financially tipped us over.

£1300 after rent?! Pull the other one!

Oh sweet child.. I was just like you some moons ago... The young, childless know-it-all.
That simplistic view of life went the same way where my well-intended hypno birthing plan did. It was never quite the same again.

Try to be the lone parent who can go and get the jobs that afford "Things". Try. And then speak. The logistical nightmares of that scenario will be the least of your new-found worries.

And for : I know someone on benefits with a new iphone/holiday/car"... There is a nice house somewhere in England where the new double-glazing was paid for by me selling my body "on the side".
I don't want to make it more dramatic than it need to be. Just take it that you know NOTHING. Try your own life first.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that doesn't add up!

Plus the PP who went from getting all their rent paid to getting none, because they increased their hours by 2? Why? That doesn't make sense. There's a taper rate so you don't go from full benefits to nothing just for an extra 2 hours per week.

And the PP who said less would be paid in benefits if NRPs were made to pay maintenance. Maintenance isn't classed as income so it wouldn't make a difference.

everyone is focusing on the benefits issue but the OP is correct in her comments about single working low wage people struggling with no help/top ups and having to afford rent, bills, food etc themselves. It’s impossible

This is because British employers can get away with paying people peanuts.

It's not because other people are taking all the money.

I’m with the op here, so many people out there who won’t work more than 16 hours a week “cos it’ll affect my benefits”

That's not the case on UC though is it?

It was on tax credits (my colleague thought I was mad to work full time and lose benefits when he worked 16 hours so he didn't).
So anyone claiming they can't work more than 16 hours will get a shock when they move to UC.

^^This

@Alexandra2001

The only problem with that argument is that your Polish friends have an improved life to look forward to, keeping them going working crazy hours on a low wage. For the British person, this is probably it. Rental prices will probably keep them unable to ever buy that house (or piece of land) and own their own future.

Right but you have to factor in engine size, mileage ready done and what type of car you need to fit your needs. Getting a 1.0 litre car when your doing mostly motorway driving isn't the best idea so by the time you factor that in the cost is alot more. Not the time alot of those 3k cars have significant mileage which means more chance of paying for repairs

I have sympathy (and respect) for you OP. But refocus on what you have been given by the system. Free schooling at primary or secondary? Any prescriptions you pay a few pounds for that would be hundreds if not for the NHS? Any visits to GP or hospital checkups or tests all free? Decent roads to drive down: well lit streets. Libraries and museums to visit for free. If these all vanished you'd realise that you have benefited and taken the benefits for granted.

The system is stacked against you in your situation and there is little support for you even if you lost your job tomorrow.
Working is not rewarded and earning well is seen as a means to overtax you to support the needy and the feckless.
Personally I think there should be a standard rate of tax eg. 25% applied across everything. No sliding scales for higher earners, just a tax free allowance below 40k that reduces incrementally as you earn more.
If people kept more of what they earned it would return to the economy as you spent it and support businesses, the wider economy and jobs.
Tax would be recouped in other ways, VAT, business tax, and income tax from workers supported by spending you higher disposable income.
The current tax system does not support taking on more responsible roles as wage rises are lost in increased taxation.
Presently the system supports working less for more handouts at the expense of those who work Full time.
Administration of the tax system is also too complicated and allows many loopholes for evasion.

It's not the fault of people who claim benefits the whole system is unfair. Nobody working full time should have to suffer. There are people who are working really hard full time and still receive such bad pay that they cannot meet the cost of living without benefits. Some people work full time and only earn £350 per week and is supposed to cover rent, council tax, bills and food even with benefits they have nothing left after that. Bear in mind working tax credit is at most £40 or £50 a week it helps but you're not rolling in it. They can't buy new clothes they wear the same clothes for years, no chance of holidays, it's hard to save for a rainy day because something constantly needs paying. When you do buy something nice you have to sacrifice something else such as the kind of food you can afford to buy. Are you really envious of that kind of life? It's time to make politicians accountable for the cost of living and pay rather than look down on people who are claiming what they are entitled to because it will help put food on the table, heat their home the basic necessities.

If there genuinely is 'little incentive to work hard', then that's an issue that's been caused by shitty employers paying shitty wages, and a shitty government unwilling to do anything about it because it inevitably means lower profits/dividends. It's nothing to do with welfare or the people who receive it.

‘Exactly, why is working part time with an option to get UC top up even an option? The people doing this could be looking to secure full time jobs?’

well, there’s your solution, OP. You need to work part-time in a role so low paid that you qualify to pay less tax and get tax credits ( now to be a form of UC).
I’ve never needed benefits, my WC family never used them, but I certainly never looked around me at your age - when I was single, child free, living in a house share - and thought, those lucky, lucky bastards on benefits.
Nor did I I begrudge anyone access to free health care, not for themselves or their families.

Fuck off with your benefits bashing, op. It’s a miserable existence.

OP you need to kick up not down
Why are billionaires and large companies contributing so little?
Why is housing so expensive?
Why are your wages not higher?
Why are you repaying a student loan?

Are the super rich and their families working hard? Or are they too busy hobnobbing with Russian oligarchs?

It's right that our society has a safety net and none of us knows when we may need it ourselves.

Yeah this is all really true. It is so SO easy to claim disability benefits. You just say you are too disabled to work and DWP showers you with free cash. Then you can go to the "saloon" and get pissed while you have your nails done.

It is sad that Mumsnet is so full of posters who need to Veet their hands on a regular basis.

The answer is to raise the minimum wage. You have CEOs on millions, and their frontline workers unable to afford the basics. Wealth inequality. That's where the problem lies, not with people on benefits.

I'm in my 40th year in the NHS with another 7 to go. There is most definitely a purpose in working for me. I've bought myself a house, I've bought my DS a house and can afford the things I want to do although I'm not wealthy. I have mental health problems and work gives me a reason to get up in the mornings which I wouldn't have otherwise. I should be retired early on disability but I have no plans to give up. When you ate working there is always a problem to solve so its good for your brain too. And there is always someone to talk to.

Get over yourself and use your ambition to earn more. I paid a huge amount of tax last year, I’m not bitter, nor will I try to pay less tax by various schemes.

paying tax, dying etc life certainties.

It really annoys me that people read what they want to into the OP. They are not bashing people on benefits. Not once was it mentioned that they shouldn't get benefits, just that the system wasn't fair, and it isn't!

I'm one of those people who think that people who need benefits should have a decent standard of living, and those that really are lazy and CBA should get them too (albeit at a lesser extent) people want these people who cant be bothered to work as long as it is not in their workplace and it interrupts their productivity, which isn't fair either.

But I do feel the OP's pain. Always worked, probably too hard for not much money and it I havent achieved that much because I didn't start from privilege to have the connections to advance in my career, and lacked confidence in selling myself, so have been one of those silent hardworking people who get nowhere. There is nothing for hardworking working-class people in this country, we just get told to see what we are entitled to if we say we are struggling, which is the square root of fuck all.

The issue is people get angry at the wrong people - we need a government that incentives hard work and actually looks after thd economy so everyone has a chance of doing well. This one doesn't, but people still vote for them. It has been happening globally, and now they are wondering why the birth rate is dropping through the floor in many countries. They can't even see cause and effect that well either.

It is actually a good idea to claim dla even if you don’t need it, not for the money but because a lot of the time it’s a gateway benefit so dla is needed as proof of disability to get certain adjustments in various places. The lowest level is about £20 a week and you could always donate it to charity if you don’t need

I used to be you op - how ignorant I was.

Life can change in an instant. My career up in smoke after dc was born disabled. Savings and insurances only last so long. There is no support. I'm it 24/7 for the generous sum of £70 per week.

If you think it's so damn easy you do it.

I am 52 and have never claimed benefits, even when I have had short bouts of unemployment I have had to live off savings. But I prefer to think I am fortunate not having to live off benefits. In any case, we don’t pay taxes just to collect benefits another time, taxes don’t just cover benefits.

I also look at it as over my lifetime. We pay taxes during the large middle portion of our lives, whereas we utilise public services and hence money the most at either end of our lives, education when young, probably health care when older. I look at it that way.

If you have more than one regular prescription you should get a pre payment certificate. Its £10 a month for any amount of prescriptions.