To think there is little incentive to work hard in the UK

[BeachTree]

Context. 30's, no kids, single, work full time.

Just a bit disheartened. I have never claimed benefits, or any type of support, I work hard to make sure I can support myself (Not disputing those who genuinely require benefits/support) I have always paid all my taxes, and national insurance. I expect by the time I reach retirement age, the 'state pension' may look very different to what it does now and may not be available despite having paid in my whole life.

I feel sometimes that I pay so much into the 'system' and get very little return and don't 'take' from it, whereas there are many people claiming every benefit possible, and constantly 'taking' from the system they don't pay into. There are so many ways to extract money from the system but only for those who don't work full time. I know someone who worked for about 1 or 2 year in late teens in the UK, then worked abroad for a number of years, during this time did not keep up with national insurance payments and obviously not paying UK tax as no in the country, also didn't pay tax in the country they resided in. Returned to England to have a baby on the NHS, now residing back in England, claiming benefits as a single parent for 2+ years, gets assistance with rent council tax etc despite having paid next to nothing in to the system. I cannot compute how this is fair.

For example the cost of living payment, people who claim benefits will get £650, where as those who work and do not claim benefits will get £400. The cost of living crisis affects all of us - perhaps more so the people who work their socks off and aren't 'entitled' to 'support' The system is backwards and not in favour of people who work full time to support our ridiculous benefit system. So many examples - ie. people get help with rent, council tax, working tax credits etc etc etc - however those who work get zero, zilch.

AIBU?

@FilePhoto I really do wish it was “bullshit”

I will caveat this though by saying the system is set to to force fathers out of the home. If you stay with your DC’s father, or have any (working) man move in with you, the funding dries up.
For this reason, 2 of my 3 friends keep their partners on the DL or it would affect their benefits.
Oh and these aren’t just acquaintances, one is my best friend of 30 years, so I know her financial ins and outs very well, she’s very open.
Many of you who perhaps haven’t grown up in the system and don’t know anyone in it, find it hard to stomach what I’ve said. I wish it wasn’t true and that my friends (and myself) who work full time could achieve similar lifestyles.

Anyone convicted of a crime should be disqualified from claiming benefits for a period of time, and those convicted of serious crimes should be disqualified from claiming benefits forever! And yes they should still pay tax.

I guess that’s the point? Those areas usually get lumped together but it’s very diverse.

@foxandbee
The interviews existed, they just had no intention of actually taking a job.
Scheme was in Kensington & Chelsea Borough. Check it out for yourself.

The US health system has the worst health outcomes of any wealthy country, with the highest costs.

It's really the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer not the other way round.

Also is @BerryBerryBerryBerry and @Pooet the same person as they both reference the same angry dope-smoking friend? Name changing within a thread looks like sock-puppetry to me, and who knows how many others of those reporting decadent benefits claimants are actually the same anti-poor-people poster (maybe even the OP)?

And this is the trouble of course - people can say what they like about 'people they know', but the only reliable report of what someone can claim on benefits is the benefit calculator and I don't think anyone can show from that that it results in a luxurious lifestyle.

But if you put the work in you’ll do a hell of a lot better than someone on benefits. There are high wages out there, for people of all different personalities and skill sets.

Because we grew up together, one from the age of 2, one from 5 and one from 7. So they’re almost like family. I’m not saying I don’t approve of the route they chose - they all had children early so has to make the best choices for them, I get it.
I just think the average person would be surprised at their lifestyles.

So where do you think they would then get money etc from? get a job and work 40hrs per week or rob it?

I'd go for amputations if i were you, that'll learn ee.

@Florenz

Anyone convicted of a crime should be disqualified from claiming benefits for a period of time, and those convicted of serious crimes should be disqualified from claiming benefits forever! And yes they should still pay tax.

Oh ffs. This is just stupid nonsense. How can they pay tax from no money? How do you live (apart from by crime) if no-one will give you a job because you're an ex-con and you have no benefits? From a purely pragmatic point of view can't you see how this is just fucking daft?

Jesus. This is why people still think Boris is a good bloke and that the Tories are 'fiscally responsible'. The lack of critical thinking ability in this country is just appalling.

As someone who works hard for their money, currently earns approximately £350 to £400 more than my rent every month (which has to pay council tax, electricity, food etc. Damn you COVID!) and isn't entitled to any benefits - I think yabu. For all the reasons that have already been said.

I think it would be an excellent premise for a book - one of those “say yes to everything for a year” type of ones. It would be an interesting life experiment.
Do you know any publishers who would be interested? 😊

@DogsAndGin

But if you put the work in you’ll do a hell of a lot better than someone on benefits. There are high wages out there, for people of all different personalities and skill sets.

Are you suggesting that the OP is struggling because she just isn't working hard enough?

Yes I did name change because I do weekly bit not for this. I am not bashing nineties but I just wish they would put more money into empowering people to get help and education and a life that holds value. Sitting smoking in a dark flat 24/7 isn't OK for anyone. I don't think he is scrounging, I genuinely believe that he has no power or control. I wish he could be a happy adult. I really do. I would happily pay taxes to do what Scandinavian could tries do, start with care and nurture of the person

Loads of countries have higher income tax than the UK (especially if you only compare first world countries) and if you compare NI to the multiple separate deductions covering the same things in other countries NI is an absolute bargain.

As others say you are "taking" even when you don't claim benefits unless you live in isolation totally off grid - as soon as you use the national infrastructure you're using things paid for by taxes.

The things that you don't use are there as a safety net - just like insurance. You may one day need to rely on them due to no fault of your own (life changing accident or illness for example) and if opting out had been an option you'd be buggered.

In the end if children of people like your acquaintance had no basic financial safety net and no state schools they'd die or grow up in worse poverty, potentially with chronic poverty related health issues or no education leading to them being less able to contribute as adults (and a higher chance of turning to petty crime). It's unclear whether you would prefer that if it means that you pay less tax, but it certainly makes for a worse country for everyone.

That's one way of guaranteeing crime rates rising.

The government knows these lifestyles are not sustainable in the long run. The green revolution is going to be a dynamic lifestyle change. Some are going to be left behind.
The NHS creaking-unhealthy nation-choices by patients.
Energy usage -is not sustainable.
Business-anyone can set up a business whether it's sustainable or not.
The benefits system-especially for able-bodied adults, and parents-is not sustainable people resent this now.

We have disincentivized working and nuclear families. The road is running out, what we take for granted now is going into reverse. It's going to be painful for quite a large portion of society.
People have made what was thought of as a great idea at the time terrible choices. For those of us independent from the government, net positive contributors it's a great place to be. Plenty of reasons to work. For others not so good.
It's time to pay the piper.

I should add that the big tax dodgers like Amazon, Starbucks, etc. should absolutely be made to pay their fair share.
But that doesn’t make it okay on the other end of the spectrum to have a system where for many, it pays not to work.
Both circumstances are morally questionable.

So your friends are claiming legacy benefits ( I thought all claims since about 2016 had to be for UC?) Yet their DC are still going enough that their IS hasn't been stopped? And they get more than the benefit cap? Plus free designer clothes?

Righto.

@Hrpuffnstuff1

“We have disincentivized working and nuclear families.“

This, exactly. It’s not good for society and possibly behind so many of the mental health issues in this country.

@FilePhoto yes they’re all on legacy benefits not UC.
Children are all under 16. Youngest is 8.

It is for you to prove your claim is true. Got a link?

You are technically correct. If you clear £2500 not a hard aim if you think rent, council tax, water, UC. That’s equivalent to 40k salary after tax. Higher than the average salary.

The issue is the low wage system has distorted things. The people who really struggle are the ones who just miss out on top up support. For example those on 25-40k ish.

The tax here is high, income tax at around 60% at one point which is one of the highest in the world.

Smamplus Loads of countries have higher income tax than the UK (especially if you only compare first world countries) and if you compare NI to the multiple separate deductions covering the same things in other countries NI is an absolute bargain.

They have higher rates but get more for it and also have more deductions - as I pointed out, several higher rate European countries allow your commuting to work expenses to be deducted from your income tax bill and still have mortgage interest tax relief, significantly lower council tax equivalent, etc..

So overall the difference isn't as large as you imagine. Having such a poor infrastructure as the UK has makes working full time difficult and expensive if you live outside the south east.

And national insurance isn't a bargain. Its so complicated to say what it actually pays for in the UK but the NHS isn't cheap. We actually have the situation where a lot of people end up paying twice for healthcare - once through general taxation and once again privately for the conditions that the NHS misses or refuses to treat within a reasonable time. That is appalling.