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To think the NHS will eventually have to be privatised ?

401 replies

Felixsmama · 25/07/2022 10:23

When the NHS was founded 1 in 2 people died before the age of 65. It's now 1 in 8, the last 10 years of people's lives can be spent with multiple co-morbid conditions which are expensive to treat and keep under control. The NHS wasn't designed for what it's not having to do, we have an aging population. Shouldn't we start to have conversations about what going forward our health service should look like? There's multiple models not just the US one.

OP posts:
Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 14:42

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:37

I think cull the stupid

A true socialist shows their colours. Just a few more deaths will solve all the problems.....

antelopevalley · 25/07/2022 14:44

Get rid of all those disabled people. They are more likely to cost the NHS money. Some even get extra benefits.

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:44

of course obesity is an issue but it's not the only issue & I've never seen a HCP say the NHS is crumbling because of obesity. Do you think lots of older people are "fatties"? because the NHS is struggling now. And as I said upthread there are also socio economic factors why people misuse drugs, drink & food. Why do you think we have HCP who are obese or alcoholic?

Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 14:47

antelopevalley · 25/07/2022 14:44

Get rid of all those disabled people. They are more likely to cost the NHS money. Some even get extra benefits.

Bring obese is a choice, not a disability. It's insulting to disabled people to conflate the two.

antelopevalley · 25/07/2022 14:47

Just get rid of all the poor people. Poor health is very strongly correlated with poverty.

Kazzyhoward · 25/07/2022 14:48

@Suetwo

and renew prescriptions they don’t need

How about doctors who knowingly issue prescriptions for drugs they know their patient won't use because they're too lazy to change them?

My OH is on long term chemotherapy. One of his chemo tablets costs over a thousand pounds per tablet. His monthly prescription is for 3 of them, one to be taken weekly, with a week off between cycles. He can't tolerate 3 per month and instead takes just 1 mid cycle, which as per the monthly blood tests seems to be adequate (levels of the relevant adverse blood protein isn't increasing). Oncologist knows this, and even suggested cutting down this particular chemo tablet to reduce side effects. But she continues to issue the monthly prescription for 3 of them. He has mentioned this a few times, but the oncologist just glibly says that it's easier to keep the prescription as "standard" and that if she reduces it, she may not get approval from the trust to increase it should a higher dose be required, and she also says she gets funding for the full prescription package so it doesn't cost "her" i.e. her department anything! This isn't the only expensive tablet. He also has a daily one for 21 days per month which again, he takes fewer of, i.e. every other day instead of every day, so he only uses 10 of the 21. These cost over £300 per tablet! So that's over £5,000 PER MONTH of tablets he gets issued which he doesn't use and which just get stacked in the cupboard! Pharmacist refuses to take them back and refuses to issue fewer than prescription, so we're stuck with forever being given very expensive tablets he doesn't take - the pharmacist says they'll just destroy anything we hand back! That's in addition to the sackful of "cheap" tablets automatically issued on the same prescription every month, i.e. anti diarrhea, anti sickness, etc which he usually doesn't use, but apparently they don't matter either because they only cost a few pounds per box!

He's stockpiling the drugs because he can't bring himself to hand them back for destruction, but at least it's handy for when the oncology dept don't issue his prescription on time (which happens frequently) so he can at least start the next month's cycle using previous month's drugs whilst waiting for them to sort out their admin (which can take several days as they're pretty hopeless with routine things!).

antelopevalley · 25/07/2022 14:48

Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 14:47

Bring obese is a choice, not a disability. It's insulting to disabled people to conflate the two.

I have not conflated the two. But if you want to save taxpayers money, getting rid of disabled people would do it. Maybe keep a few for the Paralympics though?

antelopevalley · 25/07/2022 14:50

And looking after premature babies is also very expensive. It is why in the past they just used to be left to die.

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:50

Bring obese is a choice, not a disability. It's insulting to disabled people to conflate the two.

But you yourself said obesity leads to amputations & blindness?

Kazzyhoward · 25/07/2022 14:51

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:44

of course obesity is an issue but it's not the only issue & I've never seen a HCP say the NHS is crumbling because of obesity. Do you think lots of older people are "fatties"? because the NHS is struggling now. And as I said upthread there are also socio economic factors why people misuse drugs, drink & food. Why do you think we have HCP who are obese or alcoholic?

Lots of HCP come on these threads complaining about obese patients costing the NHS millions!

As for work causing obesity, why are there relatively few obese surgeons and consultants compared with cleaners and health care assistants. They're working in the same environment and in fact, the surgeons and consultants have a more stressful workload. I don't believe it's workplace related. More likely educational reasons.

Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 14:51

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:44

of course obesity is an issue but it's not the only issue & I've never seen a HCP say the NHS is crumbling because of obesity. Do you think lots of older people are "fatties"? because the NHS is struggling now. And as I said upthread there are also socio economic factors why people misuse drugs, drink & food. Why do you think we have HCP who are obese or alcoholic?

They eat to many cakes and don't move enough.

If you treat your body like shit for decades you will likely end up at the end your life with multiple chronic health conditions that will cost the NHS and society millions.

This is not compatible with free at the point of use healthcare for all. If you want socialised medicine, then you need to think before unhinging your jaw to eat the next cream bun.

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:52

As for work causing obesity, why are there relatively few obese surgeons and consultants compared with cleaners and health care assistants. They're working in the same environment and in fact, the surgeons and consultants have a more stressful workload. I don't believe it's workplace related. More likely educational reasons.

I said socio economic reasons

Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 14:53

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:50

Bring obese is a choice, not a disability. It's insulting to disabled people to conflate the two.

But you yourself said obesity leads to amputations & blindness?

Are you really that thick. They would never get diabetes if they just stopped eating and went for a walk.

This is what the NHS tells us everyday!!!!

MissConductUS · 25/07/2022 14:53

Again, rubbish, in comparison to European countries they are not.

Nurses in Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Ireland and Italy all make more. The average salary for an RN in the US is over $75k per year.

nurse.org/articles/highest-paying-countries-for-nurses/

rusticaflores · 25/07/2022 14:54

Lots of these types of threads popping up recently.

It's really quite simple. OF COURSE the Tories want the NHS privatised. That's why they've been running it into the ground for 12 years!!

People who disagree with that can throw stats around all they like - but the difference is clear to see. Up until about 10 years ago, I could get a referral and have tests within 4 months at most. Fast forward to now (even pre covid), I have been told the wait is over a year just to get to see a consultant for what is a very life-altering gynae problem (women's healthcare is seen as even less important). A member of my family who suffered extreme trauma waited 2 years to access mental health care, was given some youtube videos 'in the meantime'. This is repeated across the board.

You can see it here on MN, where people are often advised to pay privately for x,y,z because of the wait times. What about those on a low income who don't even have that option?

I'm a floating voter too, I don't have any skin in this game other than despondency at what people are allowing to happen as if it's an inevitability.

Lots of other countries have a fully funded universal healthcare system. Do they not also have aging populations? How come their systems work?

More of our tax needs spent on the most important thing - healthcare.

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:55

If we treat people who drink too much, smoke, take drugs, do high risk sports, drive too fast, commit crime, etc then we can't single out obesity imo.

Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 14:55

rusticaflores · 25/07/2022 14:54

Lots of these types of threads popping up recently.

It's really quite simple. OF COURSE the Tories want the NHS privatised. That's why they've been running it into the ground for 12 years!!

People who disagree with that can throw stats around all they like - but the difference is clear to see. Up until about 10 years ago, I could get a referral and have tests within 4 months at most. Fast forward to now (even pre covid), I have been told the wait is over a year just to get to see a consultant for what is a very life-altering gynae problem (women's healthcare is seen as even less important). A member of my family who suffered extreme trauma waited 2 years to access mental health care, was given some youtube videos 'in the meantime'. This is repeated across the board.

You can see it here on MN, where people are often advised to pay privately for x,y,z because of the wait times. What about those on a low income who don't even have that option?

I'm a floating voter too, I don't have any skin in this game other than despondency at what people are allowing to happen as if it's an inevitability.

Lots of other countries have a fully funded universal healthcare system. Do they not also have aging populations? How come their systems work?

More of our tax needs spent on the most important thing - healthcare.

Outside the USA, almost nowhere is as fat as the UK.

Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 14:56

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:55

If we treat people who drink too much, smoke, take drugs, do high risk sports, drive too fast, commit crime, etc then we can't single out obesity imo.

Fine, then your tax contribution will be based on your health and lifestyle. Just like life insurance is.

dreamingbohemian · 25/07/2022 14:57

Lol right, because no one in France or Germany or Sweden smokes or drinks or eats too much

Honestly some people on MN have the weirdest views about health care in other countries

thejall · 25/07/2022 14:57

Are you really that thick. They would never get diabetes if they just stopped eating and went for a walk.

So you are saying some disability is a choice then @Notlabeled?

antelopevalley · 25/07/2022 14:57

rusticaflores · 25/07/2022 14:54

Lots of these types of threads popping up recently.

It's really quite simple. OF COURSE the Tories want the NHS privatised. That's why they've been running it into the ground for 12 years!!

People who disagree with that can throw stats around all they like - but the difference is clear to see. Up until about 10 years ago, I could get a referral and have tests within 4 months at most. Fast forward to now (even pre covid), I have been told the wait is over a year just to get to see a consultant for what is a very life-altering gynae problem (women's healthcare is seen as even less important). A member of my family who suffered extreme trauma waited 2 years to access mental health care, was given some youtube videos 'in the meantime'. This is repeated across the board.

You can see it here on MN, where people are often advised to pay privately for x,y,z because of the wait times. What about those on a low income who don't even have that option?

I'm a floating voter too, I don't have any skin in this game other than despondency at what people are allowing to happen as if it's an inevitability.

Lots of other countries have a fully funded universal healthcare system. Do they not also have aging populations? How come their systems work?

More of our tax needs spent on the most important thing - healthcare.

My family have a genetic health issue. I can also directly compare the treatment my children and my partner get now, to what they received in the past. The criteria has been increased to access some treatments, therapies such as physio have been stripped way back, and operations take longer to happen.
The Conservatives promised at the election they would safeguard the NHS. They lied.
They preferred to give taxpayers money to friends for very little in return.

Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 14:59

dreamingbohemian · 25/07/2022 14:57

Lol right, because no one in France or Germany or Sweden smokes or drinks or eats too much

Honestly some people on MN have the weirdest views about health care in other countries

I was in Sweden last month for 3 weeks. Almost no fat people, and smoking is rarely seen as they all use Snus.

antelopevalley · 25/07/2022 15:00

Sweden has a low level of inequality. Health is always best in those countries.

Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 15:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Notlabeled · 25/07/2022 15:02

Illness like cancer and heart disease.

Pressed post to soon