To think the NHS will eventually have to be privatised ?

[Felixsmama]

When the NHS was founded 1 in 2 people died before the age of 65. It's now 1 in 8, the last 10 years of people's lives can be spent with multiple co-morbid conditions which are expensive to treat and keep under control. The NHS wasn't designed for what it's not having to do, we have an aging population. Shouldn't we start to have conversations about what going forward our health service should look like? There's multiple models not just the US one.

And if this happens, Scotland will vote for independence and many people will move there.
You think you have problems getting staff at the moment? Wait till then. We have already moved to Scotland, more will follow.

So increasing tax/nic on the workers won't pay for it!

I haven't said we should do this but I just don't believe any party who wants pensioners to fund themselves will get into power.

and we also have the issue of future pensioners which won't own their own homes or have good private pensions.

How would Blair have funded these new builds? borrowing! which costs a fortune too, i'm not defending PFI at all, some of the contracts were very poor... but the alternative was no new hospitals and then where would we be? in an even worse state than we are.....

Anyhow, thats history, the Tories have had 12 years in Govt to at least addressed some issues (i'm not expecting miracles) but what has improved? nothing, nothing at all, in fact most aspects of healthcare have got worse... as highlighted by that well known Labour MP Jeremy Hunt.

No pensioner is going to vote not to get healthcare if they can not afford it. Many older people understand how expensive healthcare can be.
My father could have afforded his healthcare privately in his older years. But he had good health and died quickly in a traumatic accident. My mother lived for six weeks after the accident and was expected to survive. She had multiple surgeries and lots of expert care. The cost would have bankrupted the family.

Yes, I've always said "co payment" type systems would help improve the NHS and reduce it's costs. Unfortunately, there's the ideology that everyone should get the same treatment under the NHS as it's apparently unfair that "the rich" should get preferential treatment (the usual politics of jealously/envy).

I don't see anything wrong with patients being able to pay "top ups" to the NHS for more convenience. Not for rooms with a view or posh coffee, but for appointments/treatments at more convenient times of day or weekend/evening, etc, or for a shorter waiting list, or even for enhanced more expensive treatments. It's all extra money into the NHS which can be used for other things.

I'd also go further and suggest that for those going private, then the NHS should make a contribution based on the amount saved by the NHS when someone goes private. I.e. if an NHS MRI scan costs £300 and a private scan costs £1000 then why not the NHS contribute say £150 towards the private cost, meaning the patient pays only £850. Everyone's a winner. The NHS has saved some of the cost of a scan and that appointment is available sooner for someone else, reducing waiting list times.

But this kind of thing is apparently heresy to those who want everyone to have equal access on the grounds of envy, so basically, everyone has to suffer the same crap service because it's only fair!

And likewise parties than continue to increase taxes and other deductions from the workers won't get into power either.

and we also have the issue of future pensioners which won't own their own homes or have good private pensions.

If we build more homes then housing costs will fall, more people will be able to afford a home (if they really want to sink their money into that) and people will have more money to pay in to pensions. Money will not be invested in housing - it will be invested in other sectors of the economy, e.g. new technologies which could create economic growth.

@antelopevalley we have the same issues here in Scotland unfortunately, the hospital I work in is understaffed at every level, social care is practically non existent to the point where district nursing teams are now taking on care packages, not enough care home spaces and no where for people to go once for enough for discharge from the hospital so end up in acute wards for months and months, can’t see how independence will make this any better considering we run our own healthcare and SNP have been in power for how long?

I don't see anything wrong with patients being able to pay "top ups" to the NHS for more convenience. Not for rooms with a view or posh coffee, but for appointments/treatments at more convenient times of day or weekend/evening, etc, or for a shorter waiting list, or even for enhanced more expensive treatments. It's all extra money into the NHS which can be used for other things

The temptation for any Govt would be to then use this extra income to reduce funding overall.

I'd also go further and suggest that for those going private, then the NHS should make a contribution based on the amount saved by the NHS when someone goes private

Is it really fair to use tax payers money so the better off can jump a queue that a different tax payer is left in?

That only benefits the private sector and those who can pay. All those who can't pay end up with nothing.
Have you tried to find an NHS dentist? Simply none available where I live. Your only choice is to go private. I have not been to the dentist for three years as a result.
It does benefit the well off though. You get to use whatever private hospital you would have anyway, and get the taxpayers to subsidise it.

Oh and we also have a lot more people coming home for end of life care than we had before the pandemic, some people are unable to have their wish of dying at home because DN teams do not have the capacity due to having to take on these care packages

I am in Scotland now, I was in England. I know hospitals are understaffed but I find them better than in England. Social care though is in a dire state due to a shortage of carers. The difference independence would make is that the government could encourage immigration for people who are willing to be care workers. Those people do not meet the current visa requirements.

@antelopevalley even when they did meet the requirements care services where I am were still dire and not enough of them, the unfortunate thing about my area is that the vast majority of people living here at elderly, far outstripping younger people who move away for work ASAP.

The NHS pays HCPs very poorly compared to other western countries, that might be a reason why.

Nurses in the US make at least double what they make in the UK with similar qualifications. I was shocked when I learned how little they make there. It's because the NHS is almost a monopoly employer. Here hospitals and medical practices have to compete for nurses.

The NHS definitely needs a over haul.

My worry if it was privatised would be people trying to get insurance for preexisting illnesses.

@Kazzyhoward well look at income tax now & the frozen bands

Again, rubbish, in comparison to European countries they are not.

Yes, and it will be our fault. Some people are so f*ing selfish and ignorant it blows my mind. They drink too much, eat garbage, sit around on their arse, and then develop and series of chronic illnesses. Once ill (often self-inflicted) they then make appointments but don’t turn up, call ambulances and paramedics when there is nothing wrong, and renew prescriptions they don’t need. Unfortunately, not only do we have an ageing population, our medicine is at a point where we can prolong life but not cure the disease. So, if someone has Parkinson’s, for example, or heart disease, or poor circulation, we can keep them alive for years, but only in a sick, weak, dependent state. Fifty years ago they’d have died.

I can think of three people who are in their 80s and suffer from chronic illnesses. All are overweight, eat poorly, fail to do the exercises recommended, and then do nothing but complain about the NHS.

@Suetwo yes and this is an entirely different can of worms but the discussion needs to be had at some point around quality over quantity

Wow. So sorry I developed Multiple Sclerosis and Epilepsy, meaning I can't do much exercise.

Hope I'm not too much of a scourge on society.

I think cull the stupid