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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For thinking SAHMs are making themselves financially vulnerable

655 replies

PeasOff · 24/07/2022 18:25

Would or do you depend on your partner financially?

Do you have a backup in place in case of breakup or for your retirement?

OP posts:
PeasOff · 25/07/2022 12:05

@MrsBwced can you not think of ways to make a man take equal responsibility for childcare?!

OP posts:
TartanGirl1 · 25/07/2022 12:07

MrsBwced · 25/07/2022 11:55

I made my dh take equal responsibility for childcare.
In what way did you make him?

I would imagine they discussed these things before deciding to have children.

PeasOff · 25/07/2022 12:10

@Itsveryclear I'm not into self-deprecation... this post is for debate not 'bashing'.

OP posts:
malika3 · 25/07/2022 12:12

The thing is TopGub, you are all over these ridiculous SAHM threads, just as you're all over any threads about "high earners" making the same point over and over. But then you seem surprised that you're recognised! And get defensive when challenged.

You say you don't want your limit people by sex. Fair enough. But you DO want to limit women and families insofar as you want women to feel as if they are doing something wrong if they are a SAHM. As you say, in your words, they should be making different choices (ie, working).

I don't need to respond to (one)? derogatory comment about WOHMs because I did not make that comment and that kind of nonsense is simply not my mindset. I've never made a derogatory comment about any woman, just because she works. What business of mine is that? Literally, couldn't care less. Are they asking for my input? No. Are SAHMs asking for your input? No. Yet you've been giving it as infinitum for weeks / months. You would never find me on a thread about women who work. That's the difference.

LadyLothbrook · 25/07/2022 12:13

Yup. Should be taught I'm schools. Although I do think we are heading into a new era of women realising this. Wish I would have known. Married at 20, 2 kids and now 32 with zero career options or employment history, bar a few pt jobs. Luckily I've ventured back into education and have started a 'safety net' fund which DH knows about but I feel so bloody naive and stupid. Mumsnet has its cons but I credit it massively for educating me on the importance of establishing financial independence.

BessieFinkNottle · 25/07/2022 12:15

You have said you believe that sahms don't even want their partners to share in childcare! I am curious why you think this?

Have you read the thread? Or any thread on working/not working/mat leave /pat leave on any forum?

I think that because women say it. Repeatedly. Its been said multiple times on this thread alone. And even when it's not explicitly said, there's always an excuse.

I have read the thread and others like it, yes, @Topgub . I haven't heard women say they don't want their partners sharing in childcare. I think this is simply your personal interpretation.

I have heard women say they value/love the early years spent at home with the children. Some have said that they feel uncomfortable sending small infants to childcare.
I don't think this translates as not wanting their partners help, no, at least not as a rule. Many, many women would be extremely happy to share as you and your DP did, but society mostly isn't structured to allow it at present - this is my point.

I think, from what you've said, that you have had opportunities re childcare that others haven't. Most people don't have the oppuurtunity to do all childcare themselves while having both parents work full time. You are asking others to make difficult choices for the sake of a better society when you have never had to make those choices yourself.

PeasOff · 25/07/2022 12:17

@malika3 so what if TG comments on certain threads?! It's your choice not to comment on threads about working mums/parents.

OP posts:
malika3 · 25/07/2022 12:22

I just can't imagine why anyone would be so bothered about the concept of a mum looking after her own kids in the day. Hardly a crime is it? Not even remarkable. I'd say it's normal. If you can afford it, why not?

PeasOff · 25/07/2022 12:22

@LadyLothbrook well done for getting back into education and furthering yourself.

So many women don't realise the impact of being a SAHP until it's too late - please don't feel stupid or niaeve. Societal influences play a massive part in the choices women make.

OP posts:
PeasOff · 25/07/2022 12:24

@malika3 and that's the crux of the problem - why not men and women?

Normal is subjective no?

OP posts:
MrsBwced · 25/07/2022 12:43

PeasOff · 25/07/2022 12:05

@MrsBwced can you not think of ways to make a man take equal responsibility for childcare?!

I've never had to make my husband take responsibility for our children, he is as responsible for them as I am.
I was interested in how taking equal responsibility looks for that poster, paying the same, doing the same or something else.

TartanGirl1 · 25/07/2022 12:49

LadyLothbrook · 25/07/2022 12:13

Yup. Should be taught I'm schools. Although I do think we are heading into a new era of women realising this. Wish I would have known. Married at 20, 2 kids and now 32 with zero career options or employment history, bar a few pt jobs. Luckily I've ventured back into education and have started a 'safety net' fund which DH knows about but I feel so bloody naive and stupid. Mumsnet has its cons but I credit it massively for educating me on the importance of establishing financial independence.

Good on you 👏🏻

I wrote a paper for uni last year about the importance of financial literacy especially for women. The stats on women in poverty after marriage breakdowns was awful.

Pinkspice · 25/07/2022 12:52

TartanGirl1 · 25/07/2022 12:07

I would imagine they discussed these things before deciding to have children.

And people are always so honest about how they will behave 🙄

PeasOff · 25/07/2022 13:01

@MrsBwced many women do have to.

Night feeds, time off of work, split parental leave, changing nappies... I could go on...

Are you/were you a SAHP?

OP posts:
malika3 · 25/07/2022 13:11

To add, I am 48 and I am much less financially vulnerable BECAUSE of my decision to be a SAHM.

When I was working, it was in social services. It was not a career that you go into for big money. It is what it is. No point moaning about that. But the reality is, I'm not a corporate or finance type. Not because I'm a woman, I'm just not motivated by that. I'm a people person. If I don't feel like something making a direct difference to people, I get very bored.

If I was still in that line if work l, I'd maybe be on £40-50k these days. That's if I hadn't burnt out.

I could have met a man who was on a trajectory to earn similar money to me and, if that had happened, then that would be that. Obviously, I would not have been a SAHM in those circumstances as my income would have been very important to me and the family. We would have either had to share childcare between us or use paid services for it. Personally, I would have been ok with leaving my kids with my husband, but I think I would have really struggled using full time childcare. For me, that would not be a better life or a set up I would choose to aspire to. I would be utterly miserable in that life. I realise other people feel differently, but that's just me. It is not something I ever had in mind.

I met my husband coming out of uni and we were young and I had no idea what he was going to do. But by the time we had kids at 30 ish, he was earning probably 10 or 20 times what I was earning. This is simply because he discovered he is the business / finance type. As I said, I'm not. He would also need to travel quite a lot. There would have been no point in me saying," No you can't go and win that project that could pay multi-millions because I need to do my £40k job, so I need you here by 6pm..," That sound have been counter-productive and would actually have held us back as a family. It would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I made a decision to 'facilitate' DH's earning potential because that's what pays for the life we have developed for our family. He was a child refugee and I grew up with not much and he said to me when the kids came along that he wanted to make a generational change - not just for us, but for our kids and their children beyond. He made his own opportunities and has a certain type of drive and resilience which is quite unusual and if you are with this type of person, of course you support them. You don't hold them back because you yourself can't do that so it's not 'equal.' What madness is that! Because he could follow through on his potential, it has bought us our home and other properties I would never have got near on a £40k salary. I know this. Yes, he could have done it without me; but he couldn't have dine it and also had 4 kids and a family life. Our set up was deliberate and the main point was to fund the educations of our 4 kids. It's meant I can go the extra mile in supporting all their interests, hobbies and educations without the drain and distraction of a (stressful) job. It means my kids have trust funds I could never have given them on £40k. It means I am financially secure in a way I could never have been working for social.services. Most of all, our kids will never have to struggle the way we did. They can make choices. This is why I have been a SAHM. I would not have been a SAHM with any man. It just made sense with the one I ended up with!

Our mortgage is paid. We have investments that pay dividends in my name. We have other properties that pay incomes. We share all our money and always did, even when we were 22. He has no concept of anything else. He knows he's been supported and I know I've been supported and what's wrong with that if it works? He's as much of a dad as any other. He is who he is. We've been married 20 years, so that means something and he's here now in the airport lounge playing games with the kids while I'm on MN!

Topgub · 25/07/2022 13:28

@MrsBwced

By ensuring he knew that I expected anf wouldnt tolerate anything else before I agreed to have kids. We both work and share childcare equally

@BessieFinkNottle

Of course women want their ohs to help. That's not the same as both working and sharing care equally. They're very clear they don't that. They wouldn't miss out on those years for anything not even their ohs. Maybe your bias is making you ignore the obvious but it's pretty blatant

The opportunities you think we had didn't just happen by chance and none of it was easy. Youve no idea of what we did to make it work.

@malika3

And you keep popping up spouting the same rubbish, taking huge offense to my comments and delighting in telling me how unliked I am. Under various different names. Its a bit odd. As is you ignoring what is actually being said in favour of repeating nonsense. I dont understand why you care so much what I think? It's not affecting your life in anyway.

I dont want it to be the norm that only mums look after kids in the day. I'm as entitled to that opinions as you are that it should be.

MrsBwced · 25/07/2022 13:29

PeasOff · 25/07/2022 13:01

@MrsBwced many women do have to.

Night feeds, time off of work, split parental leave, changing nappies... I could go on...

Are you/were you a SAHP?

Which is why I'm curious as to how equally being responsible for childcare looks for that poster.

3WildOnes · 25/07/2022 13:39

I do work but I couldn't support myself financially in the event of a divorce anymore than i could when I was a SAHM.
If we had got divorced when I was a SAHM I would have just gone back to a similar job that I am doing now.
I couldn't afford to pay the mortgage where we live, I couldnt afford more than a two bed flat in our area once we had split our equity and I got a mortgage, which wouldn't be ideal with three children.

MrsBwced · 25/07/2022 13:41

@Topgub
By ensuring he knew that I expected anf wouldnt tolerate anything else before I agreed to have kids. We both work and share childcare equally
How exactly does equally translate though?

BessieFinkNottle · 25/07/2022 13:47

Of course women want their ohs to help. That's not the same as both working and sharing care equally. They're very clear they don't that. They wouldn't miss out on those years for anything not even their ohs. Maybe your bias is making you ignore the obvious but it's pretty blatant

I'm certainly not the only one who's biased on this thread if so @Topgub😂It's quite ironic that you think you see bias in others while failing to acknowledge your own.

Saying " they're very clear they don't want that" about all sahms is ridiculous. Sahms choose to become so for a variety of reasons. And sometimes they have little real choice.

Again, my point is that lots (not all) women who are sahms at present would have actually preferred to share childcare equally with their partners, but that option wasn't available to them (as it was to you). Their options were thus reduced. Society isn't there yet re work/childcare and wishing doesn't make it so.

Topgub · 25/07/2022 14:00

@BessieFinkNottle

I'm aware of my bias. I also didn't mean to imply all sahms so apologies if I did. Lots of sahms don't even want to be sahms

But there is a clear cohort of women, mostly sahm, some part time, who absolutely don't want to share care.

They dont want to give up any mat leave and they certainly don't want to work and miss out.

And of course society doesn't make it easy for those who do want to share care.

It goes against the sexist norm. It goes against the supposed ideal.

I still think its worth aiming for even if its difficult.

The option wasn't just 'available ' to us. We made it happen.

Its not possible for everyone. Especially not if you choose the traditional model before you've even had kids

Topgub · 25/07/2022 14:13

@MrsBwced

By us both working and sharing childcare?

If I was at work he had the kids. If he was at work I had the kids.

BessieFinkNottle · 25/07/2022 14:21

I'm aware of my bias. I also didn't mean to imply all sahms so apologies if I did. Lots of sahms don't even want to be sahms

Fair enough

vivainsomnia · 25/07/2022 14:40

I don't think this translates as not wanting their partners help, no, at least not as a rule
That says it all. HELP. So mum is responsible, and dad should help whichever way mum demands.

How about dad takes half of responsibilities and that includes making decisions on upbringing that might not fully agree with mum's? Then suddenly, dad can bugger off.

I made a decision to 'facilitate' DH's earning potential because that's what pays for the life we have developed for our family
The standard statement from MN SAHMs! Those who really are over the moon to gave found a high earning man which means they can have the yummy mummy lifestyle they've always dreamt of!

Of course it's got nothing to do with facilitating their career. Those who earn that much can afford an au pair or nanny. I have a number of friends who both have well paid career that means they travel abroad. They have nannies. They most of the time manage to work their schedules so one is at home but when not possible, they have the nanny.

Celebrities manage it but somehow, rich mums on MN can't. They instead sacrifice their well paid or rewarding careers just to allow their man to earn a fortune to support their lifestyle!!

MsTSwift · 25/07/2022 15:42

I chose time out because I wanted too and I bloody loved it! Dh wanted to do it too but I won. So if anyone is aggrieved it should be him! We see it the other way round you see. Spending time with our babies was the coveted role earning the money less so.