To think DD can get top grades in an 'average' comp. secondary?

[HotCaterpillar]

Dd has done well at primary, near top of class academically and is well behaved and conscientious.

I've moved area and she's due to start secondary in an averagely performing comp. in September. Aibu to think she can get top grades in that environment if she continues to apply herself to studying?

She was offered a place in a selective private school but I declined due to the fees, I could probably just about afford them but it felt very expensive when there is a free option. She's done well in state primary. I'm a single parent working FT, we have a good home life.

Everyone is going to reply insisting that she can.

I hope she can. But the odds aren’t in her favour.

Its obviously wrong to say no child who attends a state school doesn’t get top grades but tbh not many do. Plenty will get 5s and 6s that should have been 7s and 8s, but they still passed, so all is well in education.

Of course she can. My daughter has just taken her GCSEs in a just about average comp in a fairly struggling area. She is expected to get 8s and 9s as are a handful of others in her year.

Of course she can. Whether or not she will, will depend upon you, her and the cohort she finds herself in. It is a lottery, but then so is the private school, albeit one with shorter odds.

if I was you I would save hard and consider reassessing for yr 9 and yr 12.

No of course YANBU, my DS went to a big standard comp and got top grades. Admittedly he did have to use YouTube for some additional self tutoring and was very self motivated.

Both my nieces did. Their cousins (both siblings) who attended the same average comp did not.

The difference was - to be brutally frank - the children's very different attitudes to school, education and learning and very different parenting.

Out of interest

why apply for the private school if you knew you could not afford?

as an aside, my daughter was top at her state primary.

moved private and whilst on top quarter, never been “top”. Operates at different standard and speed to state

Yes she can, if SHE wants to.
Don't underestimate the influence of friendship groups too.

You’ll probably have people telling you she’s missing out, but in a standard secondary comprehensive, there will be a whole range of abilities and aptitudes and if she’s prepared to work hard and use the opportunities that arise, as well as the enrichment you can offer at home, there’s no reason that she can’t do well.

I worked in a school that was struggling just before I started there. One lad got top GSCEs, went to 6th form college and on to Oxford. He was motivated, teachers recognised his ability and nurtured it and he worked hard.

Of course she can. I’ve worked in a variety of schools from top performing to very deprived, the biggest influence on whether a pupil does well is how involved and supportive their parent(s) are.

Yes, she absolutely can. It was a long time ago now, but my GCSE (11 A*s) and A-Level (AAA) results far surpassed DH’s despite me going to a very average comp and him going to private school.

I got straight As (the highest score at the time) in a distinctly average comprehensive school. I actually went to a grammar school at 16 and did worse. :-) One of the key things was that I was part of a small, supportive, academically strong friendship group. I also did a decent amount of extra curricular activities - e.g. Science and writing events.

If it's a genuine comp with a full mix of abilities and achievements, then she should be able to do well. I'm assuming that the school will put her into a top set as she gets older. As a bright kid at a comp, the first couple of years weren't great, but better once we were in sets for more things. What are the exam results like? Will she have a bunch of peers at her level? That made a lot of difference for me.

I wasn't sent to private school because a) there wasn't really the money and b) my parents didn't believe in it politically.

Of course she can.

Its 10 years since I did this myself but I think what made the difference for me was supplementary learning. Not loads, she doesn’t have to read the FT cover to cover if she’s studying economics, but a few extra YouTube videos, a documentary on something that interests her, reading the news now and again- that gives the extra little bit of depth that helps hit the top marks imo. My teachers were very focused on making sure everyone hit the basics properly, so I needed to find the extra stretch myself

Yes a very bright child that also works hard can get top grades at an average comprehensive school. It’s not impossible. Although, studies have shown that many children who get top grades at average comps are those whose parents paid for private tutors.

But I think YABU thinking your child can get top grades if she just works as hard or harder than she is now. Your child got “near top of class” in primary, so I think your expectations are too high tbh. It is likely she will remain “near top of class” at the comp where-ever that is for it. Could be a 6 or 7.

Top grades (8-9 in GCSEs) is like a three legged stool. You need intelligence, hard work and good teachers. You knock out one of those legs and it’s a lot less likely that top grades will be attainable. If you’re going to send her to the local comp, you will probably need to pay for a few private tutors for her to get top grades. This would still be far cheaper than a fee paying school, and quite a few parents who cannot afford private do go down this route.

An awful lot of children get top grades at my DC's averagely performing comp.
Remember in this context "average" often relates to intake. Private schools are all selective (even if just on parents' income) so will automatically have better results.

Yes she can but you might need to supplement the teaching with a tutor in some subjects to boosts her grades. DS was very academic but his comp was focused of getting as many students to a C grade as possible rather than getting the Bplus students to an A. They were completely open about it.

At A level it was better but we still had a tutor for maths. He got AAA plus AA at AS level. It was before A* existed.

Yes, she can if she applies herself. Both DCs went to the local comp and got excellent grades. One went on to get a first class law degree and is now on a great salary at a London firm. The other got the same A level grades and is currently on course to scrape a degree in thier chosen subject. Different kids, same school, with different work ethic. 😅

I’m not sure it even matters as much as parents think at the end of the day.

My son is off to Uni this year. As are his privately educated friends. They are all going to the same ones to study the same things. The Durhams, Bristol, UCL’s are there for state and private and with luck your daughter may stand a better chance of getting in with a contextual offer.

Yes she can - but you will both have to work hard.

Her - To work at it consistently, in order to get the grades and make the most of the education she is getting within the school environment.

You - to keep on top of ensuring she is supported in her learning journey, eg tutors if required, as well as identifying opportunities outside of the school environment. Mumsnet is a good source of this information and support in the Education threads.

Both keeping watch on the Peer Groups.

Also benefits learning to deal with people from all walks of life which might be increasingly important in future.

And as PP suggested could be revisited at Y9 or Y12 if need be. Best Wishes for your journey.

It’s possible but not certain, but then it’s not certain she would get top grades at Private either (probably more likely though). A lot can happen between 11 and 16
There are a lot of variables and you being engaged and supportive will go a long way but if she gets bad teachers or a tricky cohort it will have an effect.
At the end of the day you have decided you can’t afford Private so you need to work with the option you have

And this^

But I think YABU thinking your child can get top grades if she just works as hard or harder than she is now. Your child got “near top of class” in primary, so I think your expectations are too high tbh. It is likely she will remain “near top of class” at the comp where-ever that is for it. Could be a 6 or 7.

this very much depends on the child. DD was "near top of class" in primary and is on track to get top grades (just taken GCSEs) from her "average comp". And she's not had any tutoring.
What she does have is a very strong work ethic and is extremely self motivated. She's also had a supportive peer group.

If OP's DD is like that, she will do well.

DS was "near top of class" at primary and started to lose interest in education somewhere around Year 8, finishing with above average but not top grades. Would he have done better in a private school? It's possible he may have been pushed more, but without intrinsic motivation to do well, a child is eventually going to run out of steam - there's only so much a school can do. Plus, in the long term does getting 8s and 9s rather than 6s and 7s really make a difference?

She will be fine, if you are supportive and she continues to apply herself. One of mine got all 9s bar one last year at a below average comprehensive, the other got a pretty good number of 8s and 9s at a slightly better comprehensive three years ago. They also got/will get contextual offers from universities because we live in the lowest quintile for participation in higher education at both schools were below average on results.

Of course it’s possible - both mine did, as so thousands of others each year. As @lightisnotwhite said - they went to the same top unis as the privately educated kids.

Teach her perseverance, resilience and self-motivation rather than trying to micro-manage her. Be supportive and observant so that you can step in where necessary. Spend any money you have on her chosen sport/instrument, etc, and doing stuff to enrich her “cultural capital”

Of course it's possible, but I think the probability is greatly reduced.

I was a straight A pupil at the end of primary, but left secondary school 5 years later without a single O level!

That was due to a general malaise amongst many teachers, high staff sickness/absence rates and persistent bullying. I attended every single day and every single lesson, but the whole place wasn't a suitable learning environment. Teachers would set homework, I'd do it, but it wasn't marked, so I'd stop doing it as there was no point!

Once I left, I did a mix of evening classes at the local college and self-teaching, alongside a full time job, to get my O levels, then A levels and eventually my chartered accountancy qualifications, so I wasn't "thick" or unmotivated. It was simply being stuck in a crap comp for 5 years!

Having said all, I had a friend who was a neighbour, same age, same primary school, same secondary school, who was similar ability to me at primary, who flew at the same comp and got a string of top grades. But, different forms, different sets, different teachers, different friends, etc. Sometimes, it really is just luck of the draw as to which teachers you get, whether the bullies are in your form, etc.