To think DD can get top grades in an 'average' comp. secondary?

[HotCaterpillar]

Dd has done well at primary, near top of class academically and is well behaved and conscientious.

I've moved area and she's due to start secondary in an averagely performing comp. in September. Aibu to think she can get top grades in that environment if she continues to apply herself to studying?

She was offered a place in a selective private school but I declined due to the fees, I could probably just about afford them but it felt very expensive when there is a free option. She's done well in state primary. I'm a single parent working FT, we have a good home life.

@redskyatnight

What she does have is a very strong work ethic and is extremely self motivated. She's also had a supportive peer group.

But if you're bullied literally every day, not just verbally, but also physically, having your property damaged/stolen, then it really doesn't matter how strong is your work ethic or motivation. Bullying just sucks it all out of you. That's what happened to me. As soon as I left school, I basically taught myself to recoup the damage!

It’s not all on the child though is it?

It also depends on the teacher as well. Average comps it is a lottery as to whether your DC will get a decent teacher or not in the different subjects. My DD went to an outstanding comp and even then not all the teachers were good. Her DT teacher for example was an incompetent twat and several DC failed their GCSE design projects because he approved designs for impossible projects…so when they went to build according to the designs he had approved, they could not. (He was also sexist judging by some of the comments he wrote on her work).

Whether state or private it's her that will have to put in the work.
She may have to get some tutoring if things aren't up to scratch in some areas but if you could almost afford private that seems within your budget.
Keep communication with school open and help support where you can. But ultimately she's the one taking the exam and needs to be focussed when the time comes.

I went to a crap comp that later was in special measures for ages then taken over. I got AAAB at A levels then went to Oxbridge as did my 2 siblings. Family support/ emphasis on learning counts for a LOT. My theory is that water rises to its own level for the most part as long as the school isn’t actively awful.

Yes, we moved our DC from a comp that had been rated average when our DD saw a kid pushed through a plate glass window, smashing it and sending him to the hospital. Fights, drugs and creepy men tooling around in cars accosting girls on the walk home from school was common place. We ended up paying more rent, but was worth it to get them in area for an outstanding comp in a nice quiet village. Not everyone can afford to move and/or pay more rent though.

Of course she can. Save the money, use the difference to enjoy your lives together, go on holidays, let her pursue outside interests (music, art, drama, sport - this is what you actually pay for with private, and the “network” which really only applies to a small proportion of private schools).

If it turns out down the line she is super-academic and wants to get into a top university, you can always get a bit of tutoring just to be sure of the grades. Also, if it turns out that it’s not the right school for her, you’d still have that option to go private.

Absolutely she can. But as others have said she will probably have to work harder on her own as the state comp will be more stretched for teachers and resources.

We did a mix of (lovely but very normal) state for gcse and (very selective) private for a levels for one of ours (due to a doing a niche Alevel) and he’s now going to a very similar uni as many of his friends who stayed in state.

You can always supplement with tutors if necessary- which is considerably cheaper than private school!

I'm a secondary teacher. I have worked in both state schools and private. Yes she can get just as high grades in a state school. It depends on her work ethic (in both schools!)
She will be out into sets so she will be with the same ability students.

It's fine.

So you seriously think that the only criteria is the pupil's "work ethic" do you?

No other factors affect it at all? Not bullying? Not numerous teachers off sick? Not a general acceptance of poor behaviour? Not a general low level of ability across the school in a deprived location?

To be fair, I think most schools are much hotter on bullying than they were back in the day. I’m not claiming they’ve all got it right but am a bit uneasy with the assumption that state school = horrid louts who will kick the shit out of anyone who looks at a book.

I has a truly gifted student last year. He’d have got all 9s wherever he was because he was cleverer than the teachers. He answered the question on The Merchant of Venice, even though we’d studied Macbeth. You can’t argue with that sort of intelligence; it’s just a gift.

The ones I think miss out are clever and quick but not gifted. Bright but not amazing. Keen but not sponges. They should get 7s and 8s; they get 5s and 6s, a lot of the time.

A lot of state schools do struggle to recruit as well, and this is an issue for maths and science especially.

Also, not all schools set. Most do but some don’t.

Of course she could. Grades are not the issue, it’s the experience of daily life in the environment.

If the state school is well run, great. If not, I would be looking elsewhere.

Yes she absolutely can.

You could always use the money you've saved not going private to pay for a tutor later on if she needs extra help.

Of course she can, plenty of state schools have a high number students achieving top grades. That said, obviously it does depend on the school and the peer group; some state schools will be better at helping high-achieving students do well than others.

Usually information about individual school’s GCSE/ A-level results is available to find so that you can see the percentage of students who have achieved top grades.

She can, but there is a better chance she will at the private school. BUT as an employer I find that there is a lot of inverse snobbery around private schools now which if it continues may not help her in the long run

Tbh it's not possible to know whether she's 'top' or top quartile at primary as they don't rank the children or give them exams as such. She's seems very capable though.

I put her into the private school entrance exam because it was/is an option. I'm not sure it's worth £100k+ for five years education though, when it would put a lot of pressure on me and mean few holidays etc, the money could be spent on uni or helping her in other ways.

That could happen at a private school too.

My children are doing fine at their run of the mill comp. I'm pleased that they are at a school that values all the children's achievements.

@Ifyoudid

Also, not all schools set. Most do but some don’t.

Even those who do set, often don't have lots of different ability groups. We had 9 forms in my year. You'd have thought that there'd be several different standards of "sets". But no. The forms were grouped into 3 groups of 3 forms, and there was a top, middle and bottom set for Maths and English in each group. So 3 "top" groups, 3 "middle" groups and 3 "bottom" groups. I was in a "top" group for Maths, but only half that group were doing the higher level Maths exams and half were doing the lower level, so even within a "top" group, there was a massive variation in ability.

There were also exam year subjects which weren't popular, say, only 20 pupils across the entire year, so all were in the same class, whatever ability level and whichever exam they were taking.

Ah I was going to say “was she put in for level 6 SATS and did she pass them?” As that’s how we knew our DC were top of the class in primary. But I’ve just looked it up, and it says they stopped level 6 SATS in 2015.

Thats too bad because it means you’re right, you don’t have a way of knowing.

It's perfectly doable with hard work from her and support from you. Both my DDs got good GCSEs (not all 8s and 9s, but what they got reflected their ability) and A levels. And they both had periods when they didn't have the greatest teachers for some subjects - DD2 basically taught herself the entire Yr 9 and 10 syllabus, as acknowledged by her Yr11 teacher, and got an 8.

It is important to look at the ethos of the school though - our local comp is average in its results, but looking at a more granular level it's clear that the 'A C/4 is good enough' ethos isn't part of how it works - it pushes to maximise everyone's performance and is let down by a small cohort of students whose families are just not engaged with education at all.

Loads of kids get top grades at my dc’s school, which is a large comp. Some of them passed the 11+ but chose not to go to grammar school, so there’s a cohort of very clever kids.

Back in the day (25 years ago 😬) I got 7 A*s and 3 As at GCSE (quite rare then) and AAA at A level despite going to a rough secondary comp. Went to Oxbridge. I was very self-motivated.

She will do well if SHE wants to do well. It doesn’t have as much to do with the school or parenting as people think - she has to be driven.

Our local comp gets great results. Definitely lots of children coming out with top grades. No poor behaviour (or no more than the grammar - in fact the grammar has issues with bullying and drugs)

I went to a very average comp and achieved 9 As at GCSE and 4 As at A level (sciences and maths). It is possible.
But I think it depends very much on the individual.

Factors in my case:

• I had a supportive family and a quiet space to work
• I was independent and conscientious and did homework willingly without reminders
• I had a group of similarly nerdy friends and our social outings were occasional shopping or cinema...very rarely pubs or clubs
• I didn't have a boyfriend before finishing A levels (no romantic distractions)
• I had a part time job on and off but never more than a few hours a week.
• I generally loved school (all subjects) and loved exams
• I had ambition. I wanted to travel and work and be independent. I actively wanted a good (and well paid!) job from my mid teens. I prioritised success over relationships.

Those are the things I can think of!

From my experience, top grades aren’t the be all and end all. No point getting into Oxford or Cambridge if you don’t have the social and cultural capital to do well there.
If you can scrape together the funds for private school I certainly would. Not only will she be better resourced to make the top grades, but she will also meet the right sort of people to ensure she gets on in life.
What I missed out on by going to state schools was meeting like minded people.

Thanks to the pandemic there is a full set of lessons for every topic and year at secondary on Oak Academy. Some brilliant, some a bit average. All in all enough to get anyone through GCSE's without decent teachers, private schools or expensive tutors. Just takes a bit of effort. If my daughter (in her average comp) doesn't understand something, that's where we go. I am also a big believer in the saying "birds of a feather flock together" - wherever she goes she will hopefully find a friendship group of like-minded souls who will support each other. Doesn't always work like that but, as an ex-teacher, I saw it time and time again.