Summer holidays - outdated

[Wednesdayafternoon]

So I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some pictures after school club/breakfast club to my sons school put up and it just got me thinking how crazy it is that schools just completely shut down for like 6-7 weeks.
They have all these facilities during term time to support working families because there is obviously a need to for it, but in the holidays... ahh f*ck it!
Obviously o know there's summer schemes but at a massive expense and also different hours and locations.
My sons school isn't offering one so he's attending some random school for 3 days over the summer mainly just so he's socialising!
I'm extremely lucky as my mum is a great help to me during the holidays. And obviously I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with my boys and no school run... hurry!!!
But I just find it crazy that schools close for such a significant period of time.
Obviously I know school isn't childcare but it school itself enables parents to work so it kind of is 🤷🏼‍♀️

Very true. Schools are now expected to lay on wrap around care, breakfast clubs, be social workers organise visits to food banks, provide school uniforms, run sports clubs out of hours, the list goes on and on. I know people who used to work in schools who've quit to work in Aldi and Tesco because they earn more and have less stress.
Some parents just want more and more, but maybe such parents could parent their own children a few weeks of the year.

Totally agree. It seems many parents didn’t actually realise they were expected to parent their children.

The UK has one of the shortest summer holidays. Plus summer holidays have always been a thing why is it suddenly detrimental. All the adult doctors, scientists and academics all had summer holidays.

I think everyone in the country trying to cram their summer holidays away into the same 3 or 4 weeks would also cause mayhem.
It would push prices up even higher than they already are and all parents trying to book annual leave within a company would be trying to book the same window. This would also cause problems for the companies and lots of parents would not get their holiday approved.

I agree that there is a significant number of parents who are not prepared to parent their own kids.
That's the state's job, according to them.

Those complaining about the cost of childcare on holidays, what did you do before you child/ren started school? Surely nursery / childminder costs are not cheaper than summer childcare?

Those saying the current 6 weeks are too long, do you ever take your child/ren on holiday during term time?

Surely nursery / childminder costs are not cheaper than summer childcare?

They probably qualified for 30 free hours childcare. Which would cover most full time jobs for the most part. But, somewhat ironically, not teaching.

@LilyMarshall The average nursery is open from 8-18:00. With somepaid flexibility either side. My DC nursery was only closed a few days between Christmas and New Year.

School holiday childcare does often work out more expensive than nursery. Many schemes do "school hours" 9-15:00 with charging an hefty extra for childcare before/ after their core hours. The settings are often poorly run by one competent adult and teenagers doing a Summer job making up the rest of the team.

Granted, some are better than others, but from my personal experience, the care was pretty shite! Definitely not any value in relation to the money I paid out.
More of an you have no option but to pay attitude.

You also need to ofset the holidays with the statutory entitlement of 20 days + BH for parents... that's 4 weeks! And Summer holidays are 6 weeks + Yes, many people have more- maybe 5 weeks or even 6 weeks entitlement... that still doesn't cover all school holidays.

But then, what real options do parents have? Give up work and not being able to pay the bills? Not feed & clothe the kisd? Not raising the next generation of tax payers?

As I said somewhere upthred this whole issue needs to be addressed politically.

Summer holidays could be shorter: 4 weeks is sufficient. To make things easier these 4 weeks could be set at any time from beginning July to end August ... that would give local authorities a 8
week window to place the holidays. It could be run nationality on a roter for different regions....

Summer holiday care is cheaper than nursery partly because of the lower ratios if staff to kids.

Yes parents would have got 30 hours childcare paid, but is the 30 hours not just term time, in Scotland we could either have 30 hours term time or 22 hours all year round.

But remember that the 30 hours is relatively recent. Most current primary age kids would only have got 15 hours term time.

@Ylvamoon
4 weeks would mean it's impossible for lots of parents to get time off when the kids are off. Some workplaces already struggle to give everyone time off at the same time as the kids.

And are you proposing that teachers and school staff have their holidays cut by 2 weeks? They'll appreciate that not!
And they'd be looking for more money to change so where's that coming from?

I think 6 weeks is far too long and amazed nothing has been changed, its very outdated !

Outdated from when?

The 6 week holiday have been a thing since 1870, around 150 years.

Working class women have always worked with the exception of a decade or two post WW2 when women were discouraged from working in certain jobs (not enough jobs for the men returning from war).

My middle class granny never worked post marriage but my working class granny took the kids to work with her (she was a home help for a period).

@Dinoteeth - this is it though. I know a fair amount of parents who don't get Summer holidays or Christmas off... so nothing would change there.

I don't see anything wrong with cutting 2 weeks of summer holidays.

Teachers obviously don't have to agree, but then they still have a lot more holidays than most professions.

And you can safe the argument about leaving- yes there is a shortage. There is also a shortage of nurses, engineers and even cleaners.

The answer is to ensure there are enough professionals in the future. That means raising children and supporting parents to do so.

So because some parents aren't able to get summer or Christmas off you make it even harder for everyone?

There are shortages in many professions but pissing off teachers is hardly going to help the teaching numbers.
Yet we have people relying on food banks, something seriously wrong in the UK.

Your also forgetting children need down time, away from homework, and lots of clubs stop in summer because the volunteers want a break too.

I still can't see the benefit to less summer holidays.

The childcare needs paid for either paying teachers & increase tax or parents pay for out of school care.
Nothing is free.

I don't see anything wrong with cutting 2 weeks of summer holidays.
Teachers obviously don't have to agree, but then they still have a lot more holidays than most professions.

So the government would have to find the money to pay the whole country's teachers for extra weeks' teaching then?

'Outdated' is an odd way to describe the holidays imo. What has outdatedness got to do with it? There were literally always working parents. Children in the 21st century need a decent break no less than children in the 20th.

The answer is to ensure there are enough professionals in the future. That means raising children and supporting parents to do so

How is this going to get us sufficient teachers and TAs now, though? Your idea would further heighten recruitment problems, and the fact that there are shortages in other sectors is beyond irrelevant. Tell us how this is going to work.

Ultimately, we don't have enough people willing and able to look after all the DC who need looking after over school summer holidays, whether that's in school or formal childcare, and we still won't if you cut the holiday further. So how is forcing those children whose parents are able to provide care within the family/friends over summer into school to stretch resources even more thinly a sensible idea?

The childcare needs paid for either paying teachers & increase tax or parents pay for out of school care.

Exactly. 2 extra weeks' of pay will not make teachers any keener to lose 2 weeks of holiday though. It doesn't remotely matter what other people think of teachers' long holidays. Teachers would vote with their feet, in even greater numbers than they already are.

Of course there's something wrong to cutting two weeks off the already very short British summer holidays - children need that time to recover from school and learning, and teachers need that time to rest and recharge, and the buildings need that time to be maintained.

Some kind of subsidised summer daycare for infant school age children would be good though, as they are so young and need constant supervision. Then play schemes/supervised playgrounds/camps for older children, if they need supervision or want organised activities (but if possible children should have time without organised activities as they don't count as a proper break - its time spent away from routines that they need)

As a parent I would be extremely unhappy if the summer holidays were shortened, I feel it is important for my child to have the extended period outside of the school environment. Yes it can be tough to organise but it is best for her and for me that's what matters

I don't see anything wrong with cutting 2 weeks of summer holidays.Teachers obviously don't have to agree

Well, if teachers don’t agree, there won’t be anyone left to staff these proposed institutions. I also think there are many many parents as well who don’t agree!

I find it sad that someone people who have chosen to have children in a system where 6 week summer holidays have been in the normal for a very long time, are annoyed by them.

I would hate to have a system where private schools and most European countries continue to have much longer summer holidays, yet the government drops English state schools to really short ones AND fine parents for any term-time holidays!

Q

I don't see anything wrong with cutting 2 weeks of summer holidays.Teachers obviously don't have to agree

Teachers..teachers..teachers. You do realise it's not just teachers working in schools right? There's the head,support staff, office staff,kitchen staff, cleaning staff etc. Where would the money come from to pay all these people all around the country for two extra weeks? It would be a choice between less budget or less staff, either way that would mean worse "service" year round for the children.

Just a FYI, my primary is open every week of the holidays. Cleaning, maintenance, classroom prep, carpet cleaning. All stuff which can’t be done or don’t have time to do in term.

I feel like I say this on a lot of school threads but the sooner parents realise that teachers aren’t conscripted, the better. Teachers don’t have to “agree” but there have to be some of them left to work the hours dictated. Comparing it to a nursing shortage is bonkers - you’re literally suggesting a policy to increase time in school but not bothered if the consequences are that there’s nobody available to teach during the increased time.

This is what people mean when they say some parents think school is just childcare.

Why, when other countries have longer breaks as do private schools

It's education not a factory production line