Summer holidays - outdated

[Wednesdayafternoon]

So I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some pictures after school club/breakfast club to my sons school put up and it just got me thinking how crazy it is that schools just completely shut down for like 6-7 weeks.
They have all these facilities during term time to support working families because there is obviously a need to for it, but in the holidays... ahh f*ck it!
Obviously o know there's summer schemes but at a massive expense and also different hours and locations.
My sons school isn't offering one so he's attending some random school for 3 days over the summer mainly just so he's socialising!
I'm extremely lucky as my mum is a great help to me during the holidays. And obviously I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with my boys and no school run... hurry!!!
But I just find it crazy that schools close for such a significant period of time.
Obviously I know school isn't childcare but it school itself enables parents to work so it kind of is 🤷🏼‍♀️

how do you explain that the schools which seem to have the best educational outcomes and happiest children (e.g. in Scandinavia) have longer holidays?

Good question- interested to see the OP's thoughts on this!

@ldontWanna if he was learning and happy and it was affordable and accessible for all children then this would be a happy medium would it not?

Teacher bashing thread?

Oh please.

Wouldn’t it just be so much easier if working parents just joined a fucking union and fought for proper childcare and parental leave?
ffs round and round we go. No teacher will want to staff holiday childcare for free, ever. Our pay would have to increase dramatically. The government is not inclined to do this so it’s a big ‘fuck you’ from them. I wonder why this is? When I had my child I retrained as a teacher to facilitate better options and not have to pay for childcare. I’m afraid it really does boil down to - your choice to have kids, your problem come the summer holidays.
I will never take an erosion of my working conditions lying down. No fewer holidays, no longer days. Never ever would I accept it without a fight. For many many working teachers (most of them working women) it’s the hill we’ll die on. Your childcare is not my problem. My working conditions are not yours to dictate.

Honestly guys I can't tell you how boring I'm finding this "conversation".
I have spent so much time repeating myself through my responses to the same repeated questions of people coming on here demanding a solution from me when I'm made it extremelyyy clear I don't have a solution or demanding I explain why I don't think the current situation works when I've explained it sooooo many times or teachers accusing me of "bashing" them when I literally haven't said anything negative about teachers.

This is just my opinion which is based on mine and my family and friends and mums in the play grounds experiences. You don't have to agree with me and that's fine but it's so tiring to keep reading the same responses from people who don't care to read the post. It's ok to not agree. I very much doubt if I came up with an amazing idea anything would change anyway.

So I'm out because I literally don't have the energy anymore! It's just so boring.

If I've learnt anything it's to absolutely not make a post about teaching or schools because wow... it's clearly a touchy subject!

I think these cheapo forms of child entertainment in the past were cheap because women were running them unpaid. I can't say I'm sad on the whole that those days are gone. Although churches do often still have those kind of offers and I went to a LOT of them back in the day! I found it confusing as a child as I knew neither parent had a shred of religious belief.

Shame, we could have had a discussion about tax and subsidy. Why does no-one ever want to discuss the economics?!

I think you're right that there needs to be better and more varied provision. Also more affordable.

In my village there is always a drama project for one of the weeks & there's Salvation Army holiday club & the youth club in the next town do sessions all summer. They're all cheap & a change from sports provision.

The schools with the best educational outcomes have the longest holidays.

Surely you have some time off over the 6 weeks?

I also think that the working pattern should adapt - maybe 4 day week should be the norm?

I think you're getting cross with the wrong people tbh. Teachers struggle term time with early drop offs & never being able to collect from school.

Children haven't missed two years. They had two terms when they learned at home.
Which was torture.
They need to have a normal summer, seeing friends, having fun. So many Children have suffered horrendously from social distancing, worries about a virus, worries about killing granny, missed that time developing socially and emotionally.

OP have you considered a career change? Teaching might tick all the boxes for you 😉

Would you like your holidays taken away to suit someone else's lifestyle?

I made my choices when I became a teacher. You made your career choices.

You can't now complain that they don't suit you and want others to bend over backwards to accommodate, making their own lives harder.

That is pretty much the crux of it!

I changed career to be a teacher a few years ago so I do understand what it's like to have a more usual work pattern as a parent. Industries vary but I knew very few people who couldn't vary their hours enough to be there for a special assembly or exam. When it came to school holidays, however, DH and I split our AL so we could cover them and never took time off together. There was lots of ferrying and timetables.

When I trained as a teacher, I explained to the DC that I would be there for the holidays, but that I wouldn't be able to do the events and special days. During term time, they know I need to work most evenings and at least half a day every weekend. It's the first day of the summer holidays today and I've spent half a day in school sorting out my classroom. I'll go in at least one more day. That really is the baseline just to provide the level of teaching needed.

So 190 days of teaching, plus 5 days of Inset, plus around 5 days during school holiday time. I know lots of jobs require working outside of normal hours, but if I only count the Saturdays, that adds up to another 20 days or 4 weeks. So it works out around 8 weeks' holiday. I absolutely, truly, honestly appreciate and value that holiday and understand that it is a perk of being a teacher.

Here's the other thing: I see your children exhausted by this point in the year. Yes, there is some slippage during the summer which we account for in our planning. But they also come back refreshed and ready to learn (whatever they've been doing in the holidays).

In terms of when the holidays are taken, I think the summer break needs to start earlier, and this may necessitate reorganising the weeks. My suggestion would be to start at the beginning of July and return in mid-August - but that leaves a long autumn term. The May half term week could perhaps be redeployed to the October half term? There would still be a long weekend in May and the one in August, so those short breaks would ease the change.

It's interesting that as pp have said, many countries with good outcomes start school later and have longer holidays. I think they are also set up better for affordable childcare so perhaps there is less resistance. Additionally, you would expect private schools to have shorter holidays if there were such a danger of knowledge loss, but their holidays are longer too.

I do remember a post here from a mum who said that 13 weeks holidays a year was "outrageous" and that "4 weeks was probably more appropriate" - mainly because of the issues arranging childcare. "Good luck getting teachers to work 9 more weeks", I thought.

I don't think there's necessarily anything bad with looking at the allocation of holidays during the year, but reducing it overall? No.

In Australia the general model is 5 1/2 weeks summer break and 3 fortnight breaks in the rest of year. This means terms are 9/10 weeks long, but it's doable.
The fortnight breaks are fab. You get time to decompress and have a good amount of time to holiday and/or be at home.

I should add that term-time holidays for students and families are entirely normal and unpunished. Teachers can take term-time holidays out of accrued ling service leave, and they do. They have to be applied for and approved in good time, but I never hear of anyone being knocked back

Happiness all round.

Long, not ling.

I'd quite like a model where you teach 5 weeks then have a week off (or two depending on the occasion) since it's the long 8 week half terms where children tend to struggle, they get tired etc. It also gives staff some time to catch up and update planning more frequently which can only benefit the pupils and quality of teaching.

I'd also hope that there may be the added benefit of fewer 'peak' prices for holidays meaning I could actually have an affordable break away, as could families with school age children.

They’re children. They need this break and most other countries have at least two months off. French and Italy for example were off at the start of July and that means this heat wasn’t an issue there.

Your tune would be better spent campaigning for better holiday childcare places and funding for holiday and after school clubs all year round.

that would benefit you and your children rather then just you.

I agree with this so much! They have so much fun to catch up on.

Holidays are for deep cleaning and repairs.

If you have low funds it takes the few staff a while to complete the job.

Many schools here in the US are going year-round now. They go 6-9 weeks, get a 2-4 week break, and a 6-week break in the summer. Most of the parents, and the kids, seem to really like it. Easier to schedule a family trip when everyone doesn't want off at the same time. and the kids aren't off for so long a time that they lose good study habits.

I live in a Scandinavian country. We have almost ten weeks of summer holiday but school are open for most of that time for childcare. It costs about £80 a month. They do things like going to the park, the zoo, yoga classes, sports days etc. All food is included. Most people take at least a month of holiday in the summer so it is only around a third of the class there at one time, and you are only allowed to use the service if you have to work. It isn't the teachers who take care of the kids but the after school teachers, they all work a few weeks in the summer and everyone gets a good holiday. The problem in the UK is government policy, there are plenty of ways to address allowing everyone to have a break with family over summer whilst providing a nice and affordable childcare option for kids.

Think I know the answer to this given the tone of the teachers responses on here!

Comments like this from OP are exactly why this is a teacher bashing thread.

Part of the problem may indeed be that 6 weeks is too short. Children in countries with longer breaks have many more enrichment opportunities available. The programs are easier to run because they operate for a decent portion of time. Staffing often comes from university and late year students, particularly those studying teaching and childhood development who are also on their summer holiday time. The program directors are generally qualified teachers interested in earning additional income during the break. Many localities use the empty schools to run subsidized programs so there are affordable options.

There is a recruitment crisis in teaching and what you’re actually complaining about is childcare. Smack bang in front of you is an obvious solution. Get yourself signed up to a teacher training course and enjoy your unpaid summer holidays with your own kids! You get paid to train now. Go for it! It’s so rewarding.