Summer holidays - outdated

[Wednesdayafternoon]

So I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some pictures after school club/breakfast club to my sons school put up and it just got me thinking how crazy it is that schools just completely shut down for like 6-7 weeks.
They have all these facilities during term time to support working families because there is obviously a need to for it, but in the holidays... ahh f*ck it!
Obviously o know there's summer schemes but at a massive expense and also different hours and locations.
My sons school isn't offering one so he's attending some random school for 3 days over the summer mainly just so he's socialising!
I'm extremely lucky as my mum is a great help to me during the holidays. And obviously I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with my boys and no school run... hurry!!!
But I just find it crazy that schools close for such a significant period of time.
Obviously I know school isn't childcare but it school itself enables parents to work so it kind of is 🤷🏼‍♀️

Agreed!

Or lengthen summer, see if it makes any difference to attainment level if other countries do better and have longer holidays.

But the key to it has to be plenty childcare availability, and activity camps for secondary aged kids. It seems nuts at secondary age kids are expected to entertain themselves for weeks with minimal adult supervision. And not get into trouble.

Teachers and school staff probably disagree but I think the summer holidays are too long. I think it would be better to have a two week May half term, a month in the summer and two weeks in October half term (bring it forward a bit so it's while the weather is still nice and the clocks haven't gone back).

People always say you can't have a two week May half term because of exams, but some areas of England (and maybe Wales) already do.

Interesting reply, thank you. Lots of questions now-I hood you don’t mind!

I presume the government subsidises that heavily? How do parents prove they are working? If eg they work Monday/Tuesday would they only be entitled to childcare on those days?

Who are the ‘after school’ teachers? Are they actual teachers?

Are there fines for parents taking their children out for holidays at other times? Does this happen much? Is there any sort of teacher retention crisis? When do the buildings get repaired-are many falling down?

I do not know why you're claiming that teachers would disagree, because I'm a teacher and have literally made the same suggestion just upthread.

I also think it's silly that school facilities shut down. Some are used for holiday clubs but some just sit there empty for six weeks (I know sometimes they have work done while they have the time). State school facilities are a taxpayer-funded resource and should be open to the public out of term-time. It would allow schools to make money on rentals, too.

So no 2 weeks in May because 1 year group out of 10/11 year groups will study through one holidays for one year of their life?! Very week argument.

The summer break is not the only time to go on holiday. May/June the weather is often better than July and august. Having a two week break then gives more flexibly for parents to go on holiday then than they have at the moment.

All school holidays periods are an extortionate price. Reducing the summer break by two weeks will not make those holidays cheaper.

October, yes the weather isn't great then, but again, for those who like to go abroad, there are still short hall countries where the weather is still warm enough.

For those who can't afford holidays, also struggle to afford childcare for such a long period. I know when mine were young we found it really hard - and we were incredibly lucky to have support from family and some friends to help spread the care. 4 weeks would have been so much easier to cope with, while not feeling we were putting on family.

I do not know why you're claiming that teachers would disagree, because I'm a teacher and have literally made the same suggestion just upthread

OK I should have said "some" but most teachers I know like the six weeks and would be horrified at having it reduced!

Suggestion also doesn't work for Scotland as they don't have the same holidays as England and Wales and it may be that the structure in Scotland works better (it definitely makes more sense to break up at the end of June as the weather is better than in late August).

No, we were all agreeing at work yesterday that we'd like the summer holidays shorter, and build in extra time elsewhere. No-one "horrified" by the suggestion, and many sympathetic with working parents with childcare problems.
Anyway. I can't see it happening because this government won't invest in such provision or flexibility.

It's called budget for the summer break. Spreading holidays into colder months just means kids in the house rather than out.
Easier to get cheap days out in summer than in the winter.

Sometimes?!

I would say that virtually every school does significant maintenance and repair for the bulk of the summer holiday.

I agree - we've been given a timetable of works for our school site so we're informed if we go in to work. Every summer there's new flooring, decorating, furniture replacement, electricity work, refurbishing toilets, canteen, gyms, technology depts etc.
There's a huge amount and it goes on all summer, every year.
I won't be able to get into my classroom or resource base at certain set times.

Does your employer have restrictions on numbers of staff off at a time?

Lots of employers do. Compressing summer makes that more difficult.

Scotlands exams are earlier than England's, exams in May. And it's 3 year groups sitting exams (don't quite get why England only has one year sitting exams).

Just twigged your a teacher but think about the maintenance guys they want time with their kids too.

I understand your issue, @Dinoteeth, but my point is that it's not the fault of teachers, who are, in my experience, concerned about parents and children who don't necessarily get a benefit from long holidays.
I'm just challenging any assumption that the long summer break endures because that's what teachers want.

I think parents should be shocked about the conditions your children have to put up in school due to maintenance.

The heating is broken in our local primarily and was when the temperatures topped last week. That meant that when temperatures were soatlring and adults in cool offices were advised to work from home, five year olds were seating in a class where the heating was on full blast and couldn't be turned off.
It will be fixed over the holiday. I hope....

They're contractors who I hope are happy to take on the work - they're not regular school employees.

While summer might be a time of extra work in schools doesn't mean the guys won't want time off.

OK forget them. What about other "keyworkers" from Doctors to Bin men they can't reduce their workforce by a third for a month of school holidays.

I say a third (33% not bothered about school holidays the other 66% taking a fortnight each compressed into a month)

They're contractors who I hope are happy to take on the work - they're not regular school employees.

Did you miss this ?

You're right, @Dinoteeth - that's my point! We were all agreeing at work that it's a very inflexible system for many parents and not good for some vulnerable children, and some who just go feral. Not to mention employers who can't always be flexible.
I would suggest a shorter summer holiday, but people have rightly pointed out problems with that as well.

I would think Scandinavian buildings are better constructed than ours. They must be, to survive the tough winters.

Regarding their funding, I know a little about Norway as I researched it with my A-level students once for a project on the gender pay gap in the UK (I thought it would be good for students to have a comparator). They had (have?) a government policy aimed at providing excellent childcare support with the express aim of keeping educated women in the workforce post children. The rationale was these women would earn more over their lifetimes and therefore pay more tax in to the system.

Of course they also have oil wealth sensibly invested in a sovereign wealth fund and a small population. So, they can afford to subsidise childcare generously, and their population is small so they can't be wasting workers.

But (and this is the crucial part) wages are higher there and I suspect there is more social consensus. We don't know what we want in the UK so we'll never ge6 it! Imagine trying for policy change when one group thinks school holidays are too long, one thinks they're too short and another group could care less as long as they're not stuck in traffic!

6 weeks isn't long, its too short for summer holidays, we have 10 weeks in my country. My local paper had an article recently talking about the length of the summer holidays and how important it is for children to have a good length of time free from normal routines and schedules, free to relax and be bored. They mentioned that studies show that a long break of multiple weeks is in the best interests of children.
The issue of vulnerable children doesn't mean holidays should be shorter, it means there should be more help for children and families during the holidays. In the cities in my country they have supervised playgrounds during the summer where children can go to play safely, get a free hot lunch, and have access to safe adults if they need to disclose anything. That would be a great thing to replicate elsewhere.

I agree @BustopherPonsonbyJones

I am jealous of people who have flexible working and can work from home. Some of my friends take their children to school and work late.
Some of my friends work from home and get all the chores done during their breaks.

These all sound appealing when I'm rushing my children out of the door at 7.15am having emptied the dishwasher at 6.30am!

The issue of vulnerable children doesn't mean holidays should be shorter, it means there should be more help for children and families during the holidays. In the cities in my country they have supervised playgrounds during the summer where children can go to play safely, get a free hot lunch, and have access to safe adults if they need to disclose anything. That would be a great thing to replicate elsewhere.

Absolutely-that sounds great. What we don’t need, for any child,
as a solution to inflexible employers, is for all children to spend more time within the same 4 walls. For people who say, ‘oh no-it wouldn’t be children sitting in a classroom, they could do art, music, sports and cooking-are not experienced classroom practitioners.

I work in a school that has a large number of pupil premium students. Teachers run clubs after school, work during half term, Saturdays to run intervention classes for yr 11 and yr 10 and spend time during half term marking. I spend over half of my summer break planning some of the lessons for next year, creating resources, pre recording practicals for non specialists in my team and for students off with COVID.

All parents in my school were sent an email with lots of info about free clubs, discounted activities, food schemes, activity packs/reading lists/ revision tasks so that some learning can take place at home.

All ks4 students have had back to back exams and class setting assessments in the summer term and need a break from school. Teachers need a break from school, it's the only holiday I'm not required to teach intervention classes, and by the way I don't get paid extra for it. I work at least 10 hours a day each day during term time.

I personally think 6-7 weeks is a the perfect amount of time. I am a working mother and in my job as a nurse, you are only allowed a certain amount of staff off at the same time. We all have school age kids. Reducing the school holidays would mean not every member of staff would be able to get time off in the school holidays to spend time with their family. Also demand for holiday destinations would go up, probally pushing the prices higher than what they currently are. I personally wouldnt want my kids to have time off in the colder months when it is to cold to go anywhere, or to cold to go outside. Other countries have longer off in the summer, so we are lucky in the Uk.