Summer holidays - outdated

[Wednesdayafternoon]

So I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some pictures after school club/breakfast club to my sons school put up and it just got me thinking how crazy it is that schools just completely shut down for like 6-7 weeks.
They have all these facilities during term time to support working families because there is obviously a need to for it, but in the holidays... ahh f*ck it!
Obviously o know there's summer schemes but at a massive expense and also different hours and locations.
My sons school isn't offering one so he's attending some random school for 3 days over the summer mainly just so he's socialising!
I'm extremely lucky as my mum is a great help to me during the holidays. And obviously I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with my boys and no school run... hurry!!!
But I just find it crazy that schools close for such a significant period of time.
Obviously I know school isn't childcare but it school itself enables parents to work so it kind of is 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think it's disgusting people think so little of their children they want to pay those responsible rock bottom
I don’t think that’s the case. I would love to hire a super expensive private nanny to look after my kids. But I can’t because I don’t earn enough. My ability to pay a carer depends on how much I earn. Realistically I can probably afford to pay about half of my after-tax salary per hour - and that has to cover all of my kids.

They don’t hold any childcare qualifications here. The teaching assistants at the local school aren’t even qualified in anything.

I guess it varies depending where you are. ☺️

I’m not being unkind to you. Disagreement is not I kind. And we don’t have to agree but it is not a discussion when the person proposing that you work two extra weeks a year for their own convenience refuses to even recognise some of the points against their plan.

I’m sorry that you are in such a tight position with childcare over the Summer. But the solutions is not to make everyone else miserable too.

And I am very much fed up of someone having this brilliant idea every single Summer holidays and having the explain to them why it is so unworkable and silly. It is also the stick that Give used to beat us with when he thought we weren’t working hard enough (hence why their is now a massive teacher shortage). It is very much a huge trigger point for most teachers.

Most households these days don’t have the luxury of a stay at home parent but then before you started trying for a baby surely you discussed childcare options? What happens on snow days, sick days etc. Schools have been the same for years so it’s not like you entered into parenthood without knowing this.

All this comes down to is: "I don't want to pay for childcare in the holidays". But somebody has to pay for it. Childcare workers, holiday club organisers and teachers don't work for free! So either parents pay for it or the government does. Do you think that's going to happen? No. So since you're going to have to pay for it, why does it need to be schools staying open longer, rather than the type of childcare and holiday schemes which are already available?

Anyone looking after your children as a bare minimum needs an enhanced CRB, union or insurance cover, space and safe and clean facilities. That's the cost.

I wouldn't leave my own child with someone unqualified. Tas aren't allowed to take full responsibility for classes long-term because it's a legal requirement to be qualified when looking after children.
If you are wanting children to do activities like swimming then really a water safety qualification is needed

Even childminders nowadays need to be registered with the DfE. And are ofsteded.
For good reason. Unchecked and unqualified child provision on the cheap is bad news.
If parents can't afford it the government should subsidise it. It's not teachers responsibility to pick up the slack.

How do you know the teaching assistants aren't qualified in anything? All of our support staff have relevant qualifications.

I’m also going to point out that teachers are also parents. According to the DFE there are nearly 1m full time employed members of staff (teaching and support staff) in the UK. Plus however many hundreds of thousands of part-time staff too. What you are asking for will have a huge knock on effect on a lot of people for possibly very little benefit.

At an average extra of £800 per staff that is almost 1billion pounds extra to fund. And that is before the extra maintenance/food/energy bills. An extra two weeks pupil premium would probably be millions too!

YABU - School's are there to educate your child, not provide parents with childcare. They should have LONGER off in the summer when the weather is hotter/better not less time.
Kids need to have time to play, re-charge, relax and, yes, see their families and parents. In England the holidays are shorter, school days are longer and kids start school earlier than most of the western world but our children aren't more successful OR better educated for it.
I would rather see kids off longer, like in Northern Ireland, but with cheap play/summer schemes like they have there which are run by councils and local leisure centres. Kids can go for a week at a time for about £30 and do all sorts of activities.

I have noticed that TAs are disregarded as lowly on Mumsnet. I know many as I work in a sizeable school. Some of them are easily more experienced and effective than anyone here would give them credit for. Lots of them take the role because they like the hours and it fits around their family.
They’re not childcare.

And yes. Tas are often very, sometimes overallly qualified. Many are ex teachers.

They’re definitely not childcare for people with more ‘important’ careers.

I worry that TA recruitment would become a big problem if they didn't get the holidays off as standard.

'My son is only 2 at the moment but I dread him starting school with all the holidays. My husband and I both work full time would really struggle to cover all the time off and random inset days. Not everyone has a parent at home all the time or working part time, we can't afford to pay the bills on 1 wage. Also no family nearby.

Something will have to change in your household then, won't it. This is something that you have to think about when you have kids.
If it's any consolation you will meet lots of parents in a similar boat who will swap days with you, have your kids one day and you have theirs the next, lift-share to activities etc. We have ended up with a whole non- family support network that was unexpected, and is very welcome.
Today my kids are out at friends' houses. Tomorrow I'm taking them to an activity with friends and another parent is dropping back, after giving them tea etc...

'I have noticed that TAs are disregarded as lowly on Mumsnet. I know many as I work in a sizeable school.'

Many of the TA's in our local schools are fully qualified with degrees in various subjects who are either having a career break, working around their own kids and /or considering a career change into Education or teaching and using the TA route as experience. Not sure why they get such a bad rap on here when many are so educated and dedicated, and frankly, working for absolute peanuts...

@Legrandsophie
You haven't paid attention to my posts. I've very clearly stated even on my op and multiple times since that I do not have an issue with childcare.

I have also NOt stated that teachers are the answer or said anything offensive towards teachers. I have even emphasised with their workload which is quite the opposite.

I've said the concept is outdated and I stand by that. It's ok if you don't but I do believe this is the case.

So please next time you want to refer to someone as rambling and make accusations in a kind or unkind way just read the thread properly because you'll just save yourself a lot of time and energy.

👍🏼

I'm in the top end of Northumberland and our parish has harvest festival towards the end of October, just before Blackberry Week.

Many tas are ex teachers who sometimes have more quals and experience than the teacher they support but they have to respect the teacher in charge and toe their and the heads line.
Other ta have vast experience in other areas!
Many ta get to know the children better because they are physically closer to them and can spend more time with them than the teacher who plans overall!!

@BaddityHabbityHoppingPot Yes that is the case with many TAs and HLTAs in schools in our area, the rubbish pay they get is sort of compensated for by the long holidays (which they usually don't get paid for at all). I think many are finding being the teacher just too stressful but still love and have a passion for working with children.

Not picking on you, but it’s a common and valid point. My view is that teachers (and kids) are overworked and stressed partly because of long holidays. If there were longer terms you wouldn’t need to cram so much into them. Maybe then you work could forty hours a week, for more weeks?

I know teachers have few perks. I know holidays (and maybe pension) is about it. I know they work some of their holidays. I don’t blame them for wanting to hang onto them. I think all public service workers are getting thoroughly shafted and that’s an additional issue. My argument for shorter days but more of them is that it would make access to flexible work for working primary parents (almost always mums) easier. No employer outside of schools wants termtime only. They don’t mind part days, but they don’t want part years. It’s a problem that comes up all the time here - How do I work around school?! And parents want consistent childcare. (I know school isn’t primarily childcare, but the fact of the matter is it’s where children go while their parents work, isn’t it?) And these days both parents ARE expected to work and it seems logical to me that the school calendar should reflect modern work patterns. Because it was designed around the Victorian agricultural calendar and we don’t live like that now.

Can anyone honestly say, if they were designing a school year from scratch, they’d use the current model? Really?

What would you do if we’re to design one scratch? Purely as a ‘blue-sky thinking’ (ugh) exercise? Genuinely curious.

Most schools I've encountered expect the minimum of a level two supporting learning qualification and to have assurance that the TA in question will be working towards, or planning to work towards, a level three. My school expects a minimum of a level three diploma and most of the TAs there now either hold a level four or are working on their level four.

Hopefully we'll find a network that can help or good childcare. Unfortunately we can't change to working part time. Not everyone can afford that.

Absolutely. The staff in a classroom are a team. Support staff spend individual time with children in a way teachers cannot. Both are essential.

I agree with a pp that said if holidays were taken away many support staff would leave. The holidays are often a massive reason they do the job for the rubbish wage.

As you say.

But am slightly bemused at where you think I was unkind. I listed the pros and cons of shorter holidays to help you see why it was a bad idea. And I’ve longed out that this is a conversation we’ve all had before, just in case you didn’t know. And I’ve also mentioned that there are quite a lot of school staff in the U.K. because I thought you might not know. Just being helpful.

So all in all I’d say that the school holidays are not outdated but working culture in the U.K. very much is. We should campaign for better social care and improved holiday entitlement instead.

If you feel I was I kind perhaps try reading my posts differently. 🙂

I'm just wondering why this conversation pops up every year!

The summer holidays have always been there and when you have kids you know there's the 6 weeks summer holiday or the 13 weeks not in education a year.

The government have done many HAF funded holiday places which include lunch and whilst they are primarily for children who are entitled free schools meals, they offer spaces to those you aren't.

School is for education not childcare, so no I don't think schools need to provide during times they are close.