Summer holidays - outdated

[Wednesdayafternoon]

So I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some pictures after school club/breakfast club to my sons school put up and it just got me thinking how crazy it is that schools just completely shut down for like 6-7 weeks.
They have all these facilities during term time to support working families because there is obviously a need to for it, but in the holidays... ahh f*ck it!
Obviously o know there's summer schemes but at a massive expense and also different hours and locations.
My sons school isn't offering one so he's attending some random school for 3 days over the summer mainly just so he's socialising!
I'm extremely lucky as my mum is a great help to me during the holidays. And obviously I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with my boys and no school run... hurry!!!
But I just find it crazy that schools close for such a significant period of time.
Obviously I know school isn't childcare but it school itself enables parents to work so it kind of is 🤷🏼‍♀️

Also salaries are pro rata so more days' being worked the more salary needs to be paid

In my experience many parents expect TAs to be servile.

TAs have plenty of experience usually and may have volunteered in school to start with

Childminders are qualified too, a post above mentioned them. A childminder must hold a relevant Early Years qualification and must be able to deliver the EYFS portion of the National Curriculum, you can't register with Ofsted if you don't and you can't legally work if you're not registered with Ofsted. Other qualifications needed include safeguarding training, paediatric first aid, and food hygiene. As the same PP said, poorly trained people working with children does not provide quality outcomes (can't find it to quote them as my signal is rubbish).

I would have been absolutely devastated when l was younger if they had shortened the summer break, l looked forward to it all year.
Children do need some time which is not controlled by schedules and rotas. It definately shouldn' t be viewed as a waste of time.
Parents just seem to manage, as they do, its been this way for years, and teachers do deserve this time, theres no way l could do what they do, and yes l do know its not a holiday as such for them.
Who wants to live in a world where the ethos is work, work, work, twenty four seven, its bad enough now.

Every year is the same. The school holidays are no surprise we all had them as children and have children knowing they will go to school and have them too.

Alot of school buildings cannot be used during the holidays as that’s when building work and repairs happen. Also the caretaker deserves time off.

If you use the current teachers they need paying for their time, if your not wanting to use those teachers then your looking for dbs checked people who only want during the school holidays. You’ll struggle there. That’s why clubs cost so much in the holidays because it’s only a couple of months in the whole years worth of work.

They have to hire a space (even if they used the school they still got to pay) then the staff need paying then whatever the actual activities are plus insurance. Parents just don’t or can’t pay those costs so the places then close. Funny because most parents where able to pay for nursery where free doesn’t exist.

The summer holidays should start a week or two earlier frankly.

Teachers and school staff should not have the responsibility for providing childcare during the holidays. Teachers studied teaching, not childcare, and are already leaving the profession in their droves. We don't want a worse teacher shortage. Yes they have more "holiday" time but something needs to make up for the lack of flexibility in term time plus they often use some the holidays to work anyway.

People manage and they have done for years. I would agree that more clubs need to be available and subsidised for working parents. Certainly more help than ever now is provided for kids of nursery age.

I wouldn't want the summer holidays shortened or distributed differently throughout the year when the weather is too crap 9 months out of 12. I rarely take February half term off work because the weather is shit. Shortening the holidays just means less flexibility. And I say all this as a single working parent.

Maybe it isn't teachers and school staffs responsibility. I'm certainly not Sauk g this so the answer.
However, I do strongly believe that the school holidays are outdated. They are outdated because parents work differently now, there is a surge in families in ph earth or entering overtly who may struggle to afford childcare or have access to it.there are so many children with SEN or undiagnosed SEN. There are children who struggle outside of routine.
6 weeks is such a random amount of time that just seems unnecessary to me.
I'm happy to have my mind changed... but the constant "it's not teachers responsibility" or "we've managed in the past" arguments aren't selling it to me.

The more I think about it the more I just feel like the holidays should be more evenly dispersed. Maybe a constant shorter week. Maybe long half terms or long weekends...

School staff took their job knowing how the school year works. You took your job knowing how the school year works.

If you're not happy in your job and the flexibility it provides then change.

Funny because most parents where able to pay for nursery where free doesn’t exist.

Hmm I doubt that's true. Factor in how many preschool aged children are looked after by a SAHP, extended family members, parents alternating shifts/part time etc, often because it's cheaper than paying for nursery, so aren't in childcare. Then consider the number who do go to nursery but couldn't be there without the free hours or very substantial state top ups (UC can cover up to 85%) and I'm not sure the majority of parents had actually been paying the costs of nursery per se. It doesn't really surprise me that some of the cost barriers might still persist once the child starts school.

Most people I know use a variety of childcare, including family, shift work, and a bit of paid childcare.

The more I think about it the more I just feel like the holidays should be more evenly dispersed. Maybe a constant shorter week. Maybe long half terms or long weekends...

One aspect of a long summer break does fit with modern expectations of a 'proper summer holiday' - a fortnight away somewhere. If the summer holiday was reduced then the bulge in demand and price rises would be huge. Schools staggering their holidays would be problematic for people with kids in different schools.

There's all sorts of reasons - many valid - why the idea of reducing the summer break would probably be very unpopular with many parents as well as teachers. It would probably create more problems than it solved for many.

Yeah I suspect the cobbled together model is probably the commonest.

I think 6 weeks is too long and have always thought it should be 3 or 4 instead. Maybe just giving them the whole of August off makes more sense. DH went to private school and said he had 2 months off over summer, I would be absolutely enraged if I paid 10k a year for my child to attend a school that closed for 2 months over summer personally!

The more I think about it the more I just feel like the holidays should be more evenly dispersed. Maybe a constant shorter week. Maybe long half terms or long weekends...
A shorter week or a shorter day does not solve the childcare issue - it just moves it around.
The 6 week summer holiday is a big reset for children. It enables them to return in Sept able to look at the new year with fresh eyes. Regardless of what they've been doing for the holidays, they are more rested than at any other point in the year, enabling them to learn at their best that term, and adapt to the huge changes that each September brings.
I teach deprived children. I'm sure that some of them will sit in their flats for the entire summer watching tv and gaming. So sad. But they will still be in a stronger position to learn in Sept than if they just had 2 weeks off school, as they get a chance to recover physically and emotionally from the demands of learning and conforming.
Learning all day every day is very different from doing a job, much more demanding.
I think that every child should be able to have some fun in the summer holidays, and would love for my pupils to have the same opportunities that my own children get (some activity centre, some camping, a couple of day trips, develop interests). This would help their resilience and learning beyond measure. Its not considered an entitlement in this country but if I were PM for a day I would make it happen. Interestingly in France 'Colonies de Vacances' are a big thing - with organised activities, trips and centres for the families that need it. But it should be based somewhere other than their school building as children need a break.

@Sartre - or you could ask why private schools easily top the ranks for most results, yet have almost double the weeks holidays per year? Surely that shows state schools are falling hugely behind.

I can’t. I didn’t go back to work because as a lone parent with no family support it was too bloody hard to find something that worked around school. My kid already has no dad, and I didn’t want her to spend anymore time in childcare than she had to.

So I work in my own business, where I make the rules. But if kids went to school say 9-1 year round, I could easily get an office job mornings. Couples could likely more easily get work where one does earlies, one lates and juggle the kids between them. It just seems like so much of a barrier.

The point of the summer holidays was so that kids could help with the potato harvest. How many kids are doing that? Almost none. So why keep it? It’s like dicking about with the bloody clocks twice a year ‘for the farmers’ when there are hardly any left and we’re all exhausted bloody office/catering/retail
workers scrambling to reset our kids’ body clocks twice a year. Why do we DO it?! It’s archaic, and yet we persist with something utterly crappy because nothing is perfect for everyone. Even though a change would be partly better for a lot more people.

I'd like to say that for older kids - young adults that 6 weeks is a much needed break. Time to switch off unwind and do some of the stuff they enjoy with their friends - years 10 and 12 here and it is very different to primary !

Doubtless if they only had one month's holiday rather than 2 in summer they'd charge £11k.

@itispersonal

presumably because it’s a big problem for a lot of people? It needn’t affect me personally, my kid’s old enough to be left now and I took holidays off with her. I knew about it and managed it. But just because I knew about it doesn’t mean it isn’t a huge and avoidable problem desperately in need of overhaul (although now would not be a good time!)

@RockandRollsuicide What proportion of support staff need the holidays to care for their kids, though? It’s chicken and egg!

@BigBobBoots but would children need a break so badly if the strain were spread with longer terms. Do children (and teachers) need such long holidays to reset because they have such short terms? It’s cyclical.

Surely the fact that the school calendar is SO different to absolutely any other pattern of life (or work) suggests it’s being kept for no good reason. If it was good for anyone, it would develop or be proposed in other walks of life. But it doesn’t!

The big difference is that you get PAID for your holidays. Teachers don’t

I would have been absolutely devastated when l was younger if they had shortened the summer break, l looked forward to it all year.

You realise you don't speak for all children?

Children do need some time which is not controlled by schedules and rotas. It definately shouldn' t be viewed as a waste of time.

Some thrive on it

Parents just seem to manage, as they do, its been this way for years, and teachers do deserve this time, theres no way l could do what they do, and yes l do know its not a holiday as such for them.

Some parents don't 'manage' even in term time. Some are really shit.

Who wants to live in a world where the ethos is work, work, work, twenty four seven, its bad enough now.

I would like to live in a world where the needs of children are not overlooked. Where vulnerable and disadvantaged children are more important than they are right now.

Small playschemes have been pushed out of the market by funding decisions in a lot of cases.

Until covid I was chair of a volunteer run playscheme. We also ran a breakfast and after school club.

Our council has always given decent grants to playschemes. For many years it covered our insurance, one of our major costs, and a wee bit more. We also hired spaces at the same cost as charitable groups and things like the pensioners lunch clubs.

It was always a simple process where they took the number of applications and split the money equally. it was generally just groups like ours that ran playschemes.

Then a number of big childcare companies realised this and rebranded their £80 a day holiday care as a “playscheme”. They now get the exact same share of the council pot as smaller schemes. They tend to get a bigger share of the other types of funding because they have paid staff to deal with the applications.

One company even attempted to book the space that our playscheme used for one day a week in the holidays. Now they’re not going to use somewhere one day a week - it was a clear attempt at making the booking for our playscheme fail so they had less competition (by sheer coincidence according to them this happened shortly after we were in the local paper for our bloody fantastic inspection results).

@JustLyra that is very sad.

Changing school terms would involve restructuring schools, nurseries, colleges and universities - not just schools.

universities that rely a lot on overseas students would be massively reluctant to any change that takes them out of line with how other counties work imo.