Summer holidays - outdated

[Wednesdayafternoon]

So I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some pictures after school club/breakfast club to my sons school put up and it just got me thinking how crazy it is that schools just completely shut down for like 6-7 weeks.
They have all these facilities during term time to support working families because there is obviously a need to for it, but in the holidays... ahh f*ck it!
Obviously o know there's summer schemes but at a massive expense and also different hours and locations.
My sons school isn't offering one so he's attending some random school for 3 days over the summer mainly just so he's socialising!
I'm extremely lucky as my mum is a great help to me during the holidays. And obviously I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with my boys and no school run... hurry!!!
But I just find it crazy that schools close for such a significant period of time.
Obviously I know school isn't childcare but it school itself enables parents to work so it kind of is 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Comedycook I cannot quote your last post but absolutely yes to that!!!!!

So many children don't need the break from school, they need it from their parents. The forgotten children. Left in shitty families because there is no one to help them. Just in my street we have a family who do nothing but shout at their kids. Their idea of parenting is to ignore then shout when something goes wrong. These kids are desperately in need of intervention. The summer holidays gives them 6 weeks of hell with absolutely no let up. It's horrific. The teenagers in the family are, predictably, going off the rails. The youngers are not far behind. These children need the safety and relief that school (or something else for holidays) offers. They need the proper meal provided. They need the contact with ordinary humans. They need not to be left at home being miserable for weeks at a time.

This thread has highlighted that people don't see far past their own situation. For some children being in school, or a group/club during the summer holidays would be massively beneficial.

And before anyone naively suggests 'reporting them to SS' - they have social work involvement. It's a meeting everyone now and then to ensure the children are not being physically harmed and have a place to sleep and meals provided. The emotional damage isn't on SS radar.

These children NEED less holidays.

There is a problem.
I know a lot of mums at school who cannot afford childcare over the summer.
I know my son will struggle to adjust going back after a substantial time off school and out of routine.
There are sen children who have going to struggle.
There are undiagnosed sen children who will struggle.
There an families falling into poverty due to the cost of living who are going to struggle.
If I didn't have my mum I would have nobody to help me.

So there is a problem. It might not be a problem to you but it doesn't mean you can't acknowledge or emphasise with those who do have a problem.

I don't think holidays should be reduced, just redistributed throughout the year. Wouldn't two week holidays in May and October be welcome? I for one would rather take my main holiday in May/June because the weather is just too hot in July/early August. Isn't four weeks in the summer still a long holiday? It's twice as long as the maximum most workers can take in one go.

I can't believe there isn't a better balance that can take into account the needs of teachers and children to rest and prepare for the new term, and vulnerable children for whom such a long time out of school can be actively harmful, and working parents who have to juggle work and childcare.

If didn't have my own job or children and I had the space and availability I would be more then happy to.
Unfortunately I'm not trained or equipt to do so!

It would make sense for schools to be at least partially open in between term times.

Perhaps we should have "compulsory terms" interspersed with "optional terms" in schools, with the optional terms offering different activities and opportunities from the compulsory ones?

For example, during the compulsory periods, pupils would be taught the core curriculum and prepared for exams at the relevant stages. Whereas during the optional periods, in addition to sports activities, enrichment subjects could be offered (those that often cannot be fitted into the timetable during the normal school term), such as cooking; basic DIY; money management and budgeting; music appreciation; drama performances; arts and crafts etc.

I’m a Child Development Practitioner and work in a school for children with complex additional support needs. I love my job but the money is shit. I took this job knowing I can easily earn more elsewhere but I enjoy my role immensely and wanted the holidays to enjoy my own kids in.
We have three children and during summer break and outside of our week long British cottage family holiday, I take each of them away individually. We go camping, biking, dinner on the beach, activities suiting the child in question.
It’s cheap, cheerful and within my means. I have sacrificed a better salary and more opportunities for professional development to have that. We go without other things because we value the free time more. Not a hope in hell would I vote for more work and school.

I understand where you are coming from but it needs staff other than those who are teachers or who work in the schools in the term time only

Exactly that

Op, you’ve been given a whole long list of why this is unworkable/silly but you seem to stick like grim death to the idea.

Issue with shorter holidays:

• would have to pay all school staff for the extra hours (most admin staff are term time only so they would also need pay increases). This would costs millions, perhaps billions.
• It would squeeze the holiday season so it was more difficult to co-ordinate time off for holidays in most work places.
• A shorter season would invariably make holidays more expensive and therefore make them the preserve of the wealthier.
• Less relaxation/ social time for students- how would this affect child mental health. This is a big issue.
• Gives students less time to experience enrichment (would could be as simple as a trip to the park with friends). School enrichment has been cut to the bone by cut backs. Many schools have sold playing fields to raise money and are slashing budgets for art, music and performing arts. When will students get to experience this if they aren’t in play schemes in the Summer?
• Only benefits some families at the expense of others- surely targeted support is better.
• Increases the divide between rich and poor households. One has long holidays and the other barely any at all. Why disadvantage poorer kids by grinding them down with extra work- which you have no evidence will help them get ahead. It is not as simple as more time at work/school= better results. In fact, the opposite is often true.
• some working parents will save money on holiday clubs.

It seems pretty obvious to me that there are better solutions than taking two weeks holiday off of everyone’s kids to suit you. As others have suggested it would be far better to increase funding to social care and tackle the cost of living in this country. We have some of the shortest holidays and longest working hours in Europe yet we are not the. Most productive and don’t have the best education. Our population is also one of the least happy. Just more of the status quo is not the answer.

Harvest festival is at the end of September

Perhaps the terms started later like universities

I'm not disagreeing with anyone's ideas other then the people who say it should stay as it is.
Also I'm just here to chat, I didn't realise that by someone adding an opinion or a solution meant the chat was over 🤷🏼‍♀️

@80sMum

Everything you list as optional is already taught as part of the curriculum. Your compulsory term sounds dreadfully dull and would put most students off coming to school.

I think we can all agree there's a problem but I personally would prefer to discuss solutions. Mumsnet represents a lot of people - lots of higher earners too, lots of educated people. We could lobby effectively if we wanted to.

The decision makers generally aren't affected by childcare issues and don't care a great deal about child welfare. They do care about economic growth.

@Wednesdayafternoon

What you’re posting doesn’t come off as ‘just here to chat’. It sounds like rabble rousing.

I’ve yet to see you accept that shorter holidays are unworkable and would disadvantage most students.

The cost of living isn't the school's fault. It isn't teachers' fault. It's a government issue.

I wish that people would stop implying that it's always schools and teachers who should be giving more, more, more.

Nearly every single teacher I know who gets paid 40 hours a week works anywhere between 50 to 70. We do not work 9-3. We do not get a six week summer holiday. We don't leave our classrooms on the last day in July and return to some sort of magical transformation ready for the start of the new year. I appreciate that this isn't exclusive to teachers and that other professions are demanding, but there is still such a level of ignorance around how much teachers get paid and how much 'holiday' they have.

We have our own families, our own children to care for in the holidays too.

See I am qualified but I understand the limitations with that proposal.
Firstly, you'd need qualified staff. Unlikely to work seasonally so how are you going to fund it make it a viable job for a year. There's a reason seasonal jobs are traditionally filled up by teenagers and it's because they are cheap. I am of the opinion that only qualified staff should be responsible for children. It's a responsible job. So would parents pay the money to pay a decent and fair wage? Would the government subsidies it.
Space. Again money would be needed for a tailored space. Maintenance. Safety etc.
Insurance. You need both a union and public liability insurance to work with children outside a teaching role. Would add towards costs.
Speciality. Child development means children should be provided with many opportunities. This means specialists for sports, swimming, equipment are needed. Who's willing to pay that

What you want requires money, time and dedication. Which is why you hope you can shame teachers into doing it for free and schools into supporting it with all the cleaners, maintenance staff etc that would take.

If this is something parents think is required they need to either pay for it or start petitioning for the government to run it.
Not the schools responsibility.

The country I am from has school holidays lasting over three months from 26 may to 1 September! Three months of doing nothing, I remember going back to school with a completely blank memory of anything I learnt precious school year 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well I'm sorry you feel that way.

I wouldn't make a post just to argue but the way you're talking to me isn't exactly nice so maybe you need to read my responses in a different way!

I also don't have to acknowledge anything, why would you expect me to do so? We don't all have to agree!

Firstly, you'd need qualified staff. Unlikely to work seasonally so how are you going to fund it make it a viable job for a year. There's a reason seasonal jobs are traditionally filled up by teenagers and it's because they are cheap.

This is a big issue, and it's one reason why universal provision as some people are arguing for is unrealistic and unnecessary. There's no reason to think we have oodles of suitably qualified people waiting to provide summer holiday childcare, and obviously we know existing school staff aren't the solution. What resources there are need to be targeted better at those who need them.

I agree OP. Here the holiday clubs are sports only :/ my children hate sports! plus it’s extortionate.

Kids need a break, yes. But it needs to be spread evenly throughout the whole year.

After all, they aren’t required for harvest anymore. We need a modern approach

It’s amazing that there’s any professionals in your country. What’s the point in schooling if everyone forgets everything they learnt 😂 what a waste of time!

Its 'extortionate' because fully qualified staff should be paid a working wage. The extra safeguarding, insurance, space, equipment and catering adds to that.

I think it's disgusting people think so little of their children they want to pay those responsible rock bottom.

@BaddityHabbityHoppingPot

what are the fully qualified in? Where I am they aren’t qualified.

the majority of professionals got their higher education degrees abroad (including myself). The ones who got local education aren’t really professionals. Mind you there are universities that have higher standards.
although I remember when I was doing my professional accounting qualifications it took a while to remember some secondary school level maths!!!