Just privatise the NHS

[user1237865]

Totally prepared to be told IABU but I've just got to the point where I think the NHS is so far gone it should be privatised.

Totally outing so I've Name changed. In NI we have 2 private hospitals but they don't do emergency's, they don't do ante natal care. Really they only provide you with an appointment with a consultant who will then decide in treatment which in most cases will happen on the NHS. If it's something like cataracts they'll do it but the private hospitals here don't do anything major. Perhaps the rest of the UK is the same. I'm not sure.

Today DSis was sent to A&E by the GP. DM and her have now been waiting 7 hours to be seen. While waiting another man collapsed and died in front of them. I think this is beyond ridiculous how can they let this happen?! If people were seen in a decent time frame this would be less likely.

FIL has terminal cancer again nowhere to treat him when he gets recurring sepsis so most times he sits on a chair (around ever 2 months) for 36 hours getting an IV in A&E before he's finally gets moved to a ward.

I paid for private ante natal care each time I was pregnant. It did give me appointments every 3 weeks and scans with a consultant but when it came to giving birth it was a time when the consultant was working a shift for the NHS thus using their resources and beds. Yes the care was probably therefore cheaper than had I been paying for my stay in hospital too but it isn't an option here.

The whole things a complete joke. Those willing to pay/ have insurance are still stuck blocking the NHS which in my opinion should be there for those that can't afford their own treatment or can't get insurance through their job.

Surely if a lot of it was private, pay would be better, meaning more people choosing it as a career (and not leaving) meaning people actually get proper care! Though so much of what I think could be wrong as I don't understand it all fully.

The NHS isn't underfunded. It literally pisses money away at every single opportunity. The staff are lazy and don't want to embrace change and efficiencies and yes I have worked for the NHS. The contracts seem to be negotiated by utter dimwits who I think run an annual competition to see who can get the worst deal.

Privatising it doesn't mean you have to pay for it at point of use, you'll still pay through taxation. It just means that private companies will provide the care rather than the state run bodies. So people won't not be able to afford it.

Oh and those saying those who can, should pay more, they do, they pay more tax/NI which funds the NHS. And then they pay for private GP appointments and health insurance on top of that. I wish a private gp appointment was £25 too. It's nearer £125 in our neck of the woods.

Aaarrrgggh no one will pay to see a doctor or for a hospital appointment. Privatising it just means it's provided by a private contractor, one who cares about efficiency and profit and loss.

It's always easy to spot inefficiency

Those exist on all businesses and all sectors , and the bigger the business the worse it tends to be

What we have is a system that doesn't need to pull profits out of the cash available.

So you expect a private company to be able to do all the nhs does for say 10% less to allow profit - but I would suggest that no private companies will solve the inefficiencies - that takes investment- they will find the easiest way to get that profit which usually means worse service for customers at the end of the day

It's the real world

No

What do you mean 'the government should cover that one' - a chronic illness? What about all the others? Of 'the government covers them' that's basically the NHS....

This is

Honestly I would rather it be privatised and health care be a employment benefit or perk, may actually make going to work pay for people. As at the moment I feel I pay Nhs contributions for an awful service if any which actually punished those who pay into it/ work by having to pay for their prescriptions and fund those who don't.

Working full time does not feel like it pays at all at the moment and go to any a and e and half of the people who use it don't pay into the system.

If you knew you would be charged for using an ambulance when it was not necessary you would ensure you only called one in an emergency - this happens a lot.

People would not no show for appointments if there was a consequence for it

So long as they didn't receive five letters confirming an appointment then cancelling it then asking why you didn't turn up for it then sending you a new booking then cancelling that as you failed to turn up for the last one they cancelled so have taken you off their system. This happened to my extremely ill father countless times. he had to ring up for hours and hours waiting to get through to confirm each appointment as there were so many admin cockups. Central London hospitals.

I live abroad and I was horrified by the idea of paying for healthcare when I first arrive - but it's so cheap, and the services is absolutely brilliant. You get your money's worth. When you go to hospital you'll see the doctor, be sent for blood tests and literally any scans you might need that very same day. You're treated immediately. You're taken seriously. You're NEVER made to feel like a burden. There is NO concept of "Am i sick enough to waste a doctor's time?" like in the UK. Doctors here were horrified when I told them what it's like in the UK. People literally risking their health because they're not sure if they're "sick enough" to go and seek treatment Health insurance is cheap too - £150 for the year. The NHS is a bloody disgrace these days.

And, just as happens in the US, many people who did need an ambulance would refuse one on the grounds of cost. Which would increase the mortality rates from cardiovascular events overnight.

Ireland ranks higher for healthcare and you've to pay there (if you can afford it).
Ireland's healthcare is absolutely horrendous.

GP visits and overnight hospital stays are charged for, most other treatments on the public list are not paid for but you'll be dead or seriously ill before seeing someone, the system is atrocious.

Anyone who has a longterm illness or on low income is covered by a medical card which highlights the above, there are no appointments available.

We're an average no savings income family we've spent 1000's over the years on OT & SLT as the DC are on the spectrum, I haven't been on holiday for years.

I have chronic sinusitis I'm waiting 4 years to see ENT although I paid for a CAT scan there is an obvious problem, I take pain killers daily.

If you have health insurance you can see someone in 6/8 weeks for treatment without health insurance you can see the consultant for €250 it doesn't include any follow up visits just 1 visit for advice.

I can't afford monthly health insurance but it is looking like I'm going to have to join up.

What about children of parents who can’t work?

Or people with life limiting conditions who can’t work?

To those who live in countries where you pay for healthcare (be it through insurance or actual payments) but have actual experience of the NHS.

Do you prefer the country you live/ lived in system or the NHS?

I did live in an insurance only country, I live in the UK, I much prefer the NHS and I have received both better care from staff rather then treated as a number and better clinical care under the NHS.

I lived in the USA for a few years, and it was a constant nightmare of seeing a doctor or going to ER, showing my health insurance card, paying my co- pay, getting treatment. Then weeks later getting bills showing health insurance questioning the bill, that they had not paid it, and I had to start making payments for their share direct to the doctor/hospital or it would be referred to a debt collector and a report made against my credit. (Please note that one ER visit generated four of these bills- one from ambulance company, one from the hospital ER dept, one from the specialist consultant called to the ER to do the surgery, and one from the anesthetist.)

The health insurance company is of course only open for customer service during normal working hours, so you then spend every lunch break at work trying to sort out why they won’t pay the blooming bills for healthcare you received like they are supposed to do so. You sit there with a copy of your policy and argue chapter and verse. You go and get medical records and send in copies to prove you needed the treatment and the healthcare provider had in fact gotten preauthorisation at every step they were required to do before treating you. You uncover billing code errors causing the health insurance to not pay and have to call the billing people at the hospital and doctors office to get them to resubmit the bill with the correct codes.

The stress is unbelievable! Yes the healthcare itself is just as good as NHS quality wise. But staying on top of your healthcare bills and ensuring your health insurance actually pays their share like they are supposed to is a full time job.

Why don't they do what they do in European countries, where you pay £1/2 for each encounter with health services. And ensure the money goes directly back to the hospital. Maybe those not earning don't pay & high earners pay £5.

OP, as others have already pointed out, our healthcare system in NI is the worst in the UK because of the politicians we have in power and their lack of willingless to all work together. Millions of pounds in funding has been returned over the years rather than spent, because Stormont wasn't sitting

You, OP, are part of that problem. 37% didn't vote in the last election. That's over a third of the voting population. Think of the change that could happen in NI if you and the rest of the 37% voted for someone other than the DUP or Sinn Fein. Alliance, Greens, SDLP, Independents... you don't have to agree with everything they stand for, you just need to help try and change this country for the better

You keep asking why the Tories keep getting voted in... maybe start thinking about why the DUP/Sinn Fein are instead

To those who live in countries where you pay for healthcare (be it through insurance or actual payments) but have actual experience of the NHS.

Do you prefer the country you live/ lived in system or the NHS?
I'd prefer the NHS for gp care, less people would die of preventable or manageable illnesses if it didn't cost €60 to visit a GP.

You keep asking why the Tories keep getting voted in... maybe start thinking about why the DUP/Sinn Fein are instead.

Excellent point. They're a pack of whiny wasters ready to fight and object to anything their opposition agree with.

They should have stopped their wage while they had their stroppy looonnnng break.

They'd have returned ASAP.

@kingsleysbootlicker
I might actually start to vote but I'll do a lot of research first. I have no interest in green and orange politics which seems to be all politics is about in NI. I'd probably prefer direct rule. At least that got abortion through (however still not been put in place). Perhaps alliance are best but the MLA for my constituency I've never heard or seen them do anything.
I don't vote for reasons like they go whining to the British government for an Irish language act, vast majority couldn't care less. Or changes to the NI Protocol when most people were happy with it.

One specific concern for women about losing the NHS in favour of a US system is how bad maternal outcomes are in the US. Death rates for pregnancy related reasons are worse than in any other developed country. Britain’s have started increasing and there have been some well-aired stories about how running down the NHS have contributed.

If you honestly think that there are any other options on the cards than a US style private health system or the NHS then you are incredibly naive. We have just had Brexit: we’ve just voted to reject Europe and European style social democratic solutions in favour of a US privatised abusive model en masse. Read David Frost’s writings if you don’t believe that that is what is coming. I wish I could get out of this country.

Another huge cost which the NHS has to cover is the litigation it faces. This tax payer money could surely be put to better use if the NHS was given some form indemnity against claims.

I have experience of both US health care and European models as well as the NHS.

US Health care was first class and we had none of the problems described. However there is a big caveat to that - we had excellent employment related plans. Whilst the system no longer has life time caps on payouts and ACA ensures "basic" cover coverage, medicare for seniors etc it really isn't great and many lower middle and lower income people struggle to access healthcare.

European state regulated and backed insurance based health care was a great deal better. Never had trouble accessing care and more saliently, the assumption was that good health care is important for all and there were not the inequalities of healthcare I saw in the US.

In the NHS - tbh you need to be pretty sharp elbowed and fight to access care these days and my family have experienced some great care at times but also some shockingly bad and the bad isn't just down to money. The NHS has historically a poor record on women's health, including conditions which in Europe were taken seriously and investigated/treated. It also has massive structural and organisational issues draining money away from patient care - running 100,000 little fiefdoms running their own antiquated business practices is not an efficient delivery model. "Free at the point of care" is academic when you can't access that care.

As a woman, I would consider a modern European model. They are not perfect but IME access to health care is more reliable. People see the costs and are more understanding that they need to put money into it (as opposed to saying they want it but voting for tax cuts). Patients are not constantly told to be grateful because its "free" which makes for a more patient focused approach to services - more akin to any other service relationship.

You have a choice - vote for Labour to change the government. They will properly find the nhs
People hates Corbyn yet his policies were exactly to nationalise rail etc and reverse privatisation of NHS and to raise taxes for those earning more and for corporations to properly fund the NHS

You also have the choice op to pay privately yourself if you can afford it

Some of us can't afford to go private and
{mention:Merryoldgoat}@salmongrey so you think the vast majority of working people couldn't afford £50 a year to visit the GP (twice per year seems average enough)

This is a ridiculous reply op as many of us HAVE to see GP far more than 2x a year. You know those of us that are disabled and have multiple health conditions well managed by NHS and those of us with DCs with multiple health conditions. None of which I could afford if health care was private. We would perpetually be choosing between heat and food or healthcare and medication if this was the case.

The NHS may be on its knees following the unprecedented impact of covid on health and social care, however this is the time to vote in a government that stops pandering to the rich to help them get richer but to behave like decent human beings with compassion and empathy and being up the national standard of living for everyone - that includes more funding to NHS and less diverting of health funds to private companies who don't provide best value. The PFIs set up by tories are shocking waste of money costing us 6x the outlay that the companies put in. Why on earth that was ever let happen is beyond me, when large corporations have been avoiding far more funds ethically owed in taxes than needed to fix nhs and social care