Dangerous dogs

[Poppyseed14]

My neighbours' cat was killed this week by two dogs outside our local shop. They were on a lead but being held by the owner's partner who wasn't able to control them. Think American Bully XL types. They take part in those training sessions where they are trained to attack the guy in the padded suit. Not a banned breed in the UK though larger and stronger than a pitbull. A few days ago an adult in Rotherham was killed by the same breed and her partner sustained life threatening injuries trying to get the dog off her. That was their family pet. I know it's all to do with the owners more so than the dogs themselves but I cannot get these awful situations out of my head. The death of the cat has shaken the local community as he was a well known and very much loved local character but it could so easily have been a child instead. And the owners will continue to endanger people and pets. No AIBU just venting really. Feeling so sad for my neighbours, they are understandably devastated.

I wouldn’t expect this but please keep your dog on a lead outside of your property.

You said it quite clearly here. Catch myself on? When you said it’s the owners and not the dogs themselves. Pretty hard to interpret any other way. Don’t think I’m the despicable one.

Of course I do, but she is off lead when safe to do so (away from roads) in the park.

I think, given the incidence of tracks, that this kind of dog will soon be on the banned list.

Walking my puppy a while back, a bloke with a cropped ear bully type, very squat, very typically what you’d run away from, was heading for me. I sped up and was very vocal, hauled puppy in, luckily on a harness/longline. Frankly, I was shitting myself. The puppy loves other dogs, I may have been overly cautious, but I absolutely believe that we are responsible for protecting our animals.

That's fine. You keep twisting things if it makes you happy.

@Cherrysoup
”Very, very few dogs will attack a human, hence why it’s such big news”

I think you mean very few dogs will successfully kill a human, hence why it’s such big news because dog attacks that are not fatal hardly ever make it into the news. In fact, NHS Digital figures show that more than 23,000 hospital admissions from 2015-2018 were related to people being bitten or struck by dogs. Now hospital admission means a serious mauling dog attack. People don’t get admitted into hospital for a superficial dog bite.
www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-events/media-centre/press-releases/be-dog-safe/

I don’t think that is even vaguely correct. Are you a canine behaviourist? Cats are the natural prey of dogs. Mine had rarely encountered cats, but when one ran along my fence and the dogs spied it, they went nuts. It’s very rare to see cats in my garden, I don’t think there are any in the street. I imagine they saw it the same way they see squirrels.

All of my dogs have hated cats, no idea why, we certainly don’t encourage this behaviour, but they also track birds across the garden and stalk them. Different, obviously, if they grew up together and one cat I had was much loved by the dogs, but they would still chase unknown cats.

Didn’t twist anything-read what you wrote, I haven’t twisted it.

Please don’t interpret my posts. I meant what I wrote.

I have seen a lot of bully types with cropped ears. I thought cropping ears was illegal here?
And before anyone can get in with the dog might have been a rescue from abroad.. I have seen plenty of bully puppies with cropped ears too.

@Feelfreetocallme he's on the lead so unlikely to kill a passing sheep ! And if a small off lead dogruns up to him yes he may attack it but in that case it's not my dog that's out of control - he's on the lead.

We often walk with small dogs though so this is only a risk if he feels threatened by an offlead dog running over - and no that is not my fault

Where are they getting their ears cropped. I thought it was illegal to do so in the uk. Maybe that is one way of confiscating these dogs, identify the idiot dogs and the "bully type" they own based on the fact that they have cropped their ears.

No cats are not the natural prey of dogs. No where in nature do dog species hunt cat species- ie you don’t see hyenas attacking cheetahs, or wolves hunting mountain lions. They are both predators of the same prey. The reason they do not get along unless socialised to get along, is because they are predators competing over the same prey. So if a dog attacks a cat, it is due to aggression not prey drive.

What? What if she saw a cat in the park? Or a small dog that looked like prey to her?

@Discovereads cats are most definitely prey for my dog ! He's extremely submissive to other dogs he meets and new people (to an extreme).

Well so much for giving you the benefit of the doubt. You were grossly mistaken then. Many dogs do attack humans and it rarely makes the news- 23,000 hospitalisations from dog attacks in 3yrs is not “very very few”

@Feelfreetocallme sighthounds generally don't see other dogs as prey. Mine would never go off lead as I've not had him long so he's been raced recently , but I've walked in a big group with lots of running small fluffy dogs and he's not given them a second look.

A cat in a park would probably get chased. But I think most dogs would do that !

Sighthounds are bred specifically for going after small furry animals. Be that for hunting, or for chasing as part of racing.
It has been bred and trained into them for as long as the breed as been in existence.
Terrier dogs have also been bred and trained to go after small furry animals.

It does not mean they pose a danger to children!

If we switch this to humans... is a soldier, who is trained to kill, a danger to children too?

Because, and I thought this was obvious, all my comments about the hypothetical greyhound situation involve the scenario where an otherwise under control greyhound slips its lead and kills a cat. This was the scenario outlined originally, which I responded to. It was not about a greyhound that is capable of pulling its owner over, as was the case in the OP's scenario with the bullies. In that instance, yes, the greyhound would also still be dangerous.

Obviously the mitigations for a greyhound that slips its lead are not appropriate for an XL bully that can pull its owner over. A second lead / harness would likely be completely useless for the bully, which remained on a single lead but out of control, but useful for the greyhound, which was only out of control because it slipped the lead. A muzzle alone is not sufficient in this instance either - a large dog can cause injury without biting. That is precisely why I said that there are no sufficient mitigations for the bully situation (unless you include electric collars or similar - I don't).

As I didn't make any comment about greyhounds that could pull their owner over, this is technically irrelevant, but since you bring it up, I know from experience I can hold a greyhound. I can't speak for you, or for anyone else, but it's something of which I have a lot of personal experience. Granted, not if it was on a long line and allowed to get up speed, but obviously you'd be idiotic to allow a dog to do that, in these circumstances, rather than walk it on short leash, sensibly. I don't know if I could hold a dog like those in the OP's situation, but since their owner could not control them, those dogs remain dangerous while being handled by that person, which was my original point.

I'm not going to continue to discuss this with you because you're now changing the hypothetical situation to misconstrue my comments and support your own rhetoric. You'll probably try to do the same to this post, but I presume you're just being obtuse.

She is not interested in either... just ones in her own territory.
She rips around the park playing with the small dogs we meet in the park.

You really need to look into what is called predatory drift. Please do this before you let your sighthound run with smaller dogs.

But not cats. Dogs can tell “small furry animals” apart you know. These dog breeds have never been bred by humans to hunt or chase domestic cats. In fact, humans have bred these dogs to not chase or attack cats (as cats were also part of most human households since the Neolithic). It would make no sense for humans to breed one domesticated animal to attack another domesticated animal when humans wanted or needed both of them living with them—both dog and cat around for different functions.

This is precisely why a dog attacking a cat is a red flag for a dangerous dog and a risk to children. Because by doing so it is going against nature as cats are not the natural prey of dogs and against their human breeding over thousands of years. It is an act of aggression.

Sadly common amongst back street breeders. A breeder was fined massively recently for cropping puppies, diy job, probably no anaesthetic.

Your dog shouldn’t be chasing anything other than it’s toy or another dog that’s it’s playing with. Other animals are not toys.

Why are people so reluctant to control their animals? I don’t understand it. You have a predatory animal bred to kill other animals. Put it on a lead. It’s not hard.

It’s the law to keep them under control. What is it people don’t get about that?

@CaptainThe95thRifles just to give you an idea of the size and strength of these dogs, I saw on their insta that one of them is 8 stone. Even if the other one is a wee bit smaller you are probably still talking maybe 14-15 stone combined. That's a lot of dog. I wouldn't like to try to hold even one of them let alone both.