"...and I don't drive, so..."

[MolliciousIntent]

I've read this so many times recently on so many threads where women are definitely being abused in one way or another, and they always mention in passing that they can't do XYZ recommended to gain some independence or get away to some degree, because they can't drive.

Ive read it so many times recently that it doesn't feel like a coincidence anymore. Do abusive men specifically target women who can't drive, who are easier to trap and force into dependency?

It is not more expensive for men to learn to drive than women and yet so many more seem to manage it which ties in to the OP's point.

As in, DH and his 2 best friends used PT job earnings to learn at 17 in a rural area. His sister didn't.

True, but (as in my case) many more women will have concerns about being stuck alone in a small space with an unknown man.

Female driving instructors are like gold dust.

Maybe in the past parents saw it as more of a priority for their sons to learn to drive than daughters?

i had no means of learning to drive as my parents didn’t help me at all. I learnt to drive later than most on very limited budget. So i had the cheapest instructor who was not very good.
once I passed I had no way of financing a car.
I hate these threads
by the way - if I say I don’t drive that is accurate. I can drive but am not good enough at driving for my family to be safe so mainly avoid it.

Ironically, we used to have it! We had the World's most comprehensive railway system and basically just abandoned most of it in the 50s and 60s when successive governments encouraged and prioritised road transport! As more and more people used the roads for personal transport and freight, the railways started to lose huge sums of money and a massive pruning (the task given to Beeching) happened which saw huge numbers of lines/stations closed to try to stop the system costing enormous sums of money.

Even tiny villages were on branch lines and had railway stations, the branch lines feeding into larger stations on main lines. If you look at some of the preserved railway lines (now tourist attractions), you see just how small some of the stations were and how small were the villages (or hamlets) they served!

People always talk about how much freedom driving gives you. I find it hilarious as a non driving woman married to a non driving man …. you won’t catch us worrying about petrol price increases, how to afford to run the car, how to get to work if it snows, how to get our kids to school if our car breaks down, where to park when meeting people in city centre. I could go on (and on) We have set up our lives so that there is absolutely no need to drive and it’s wonderfully freeing and fab. I’m so happy with my choice to be a non-driver as I am not shackled to this belief that a car is necessary for a satisfying life which all you poor mugs have been sold by car manufacturers, and then having to work longer hours to pay for it.
And for the record OP neither my husband or myself are abusing or controlling the other.
so silly all these threads about ‘non-drivers’, usually followed by threads about how hot it is and what can we do about climate change.. oh I wonder 🤔?

Very interesting. DH's grandad was famously controlling. he asked me if I could drive when we got together. I said I couldn't and he beamed with approval and said he didn't think it necessary for women to drive. He didn't let his wife drive. But he had got lessons for his daughter, DH's mum, as soon as she was old enough so she could come and collect him from the golf club!

A friend of mine moved to the country with her husband at a point where their marriage was on the rocks but they decided a fresh start could save them. She was a learner driver and had already failed her test once. She 100% needed to drive as there wasn't so much as a local shop in walking distance of their house. She kept sitting and failing her test. Usually as in the day or two before, her husband would instigate a massive fight with her and she'd be a nervous wreck on the day of the test. She couldn't believe me when I suggested he was doing this on purpose as he was constantly angry with her for not having her license.

Eventually I convinced her to reschedule her test and not tell him. When she did this, she passed. And while he congratulated her, she picked up the impression that he was not happy at all that she'd passed. He very, very much wanted her isolated and either unable to travel or to maybe have to do so illegally. Once she had her license, they actually did split up within a few months.

I can't drive and I honestly think it contributes to my lack of self esteem. This, in turn, contributes to my acceptance of less than ideal behaviour from partners as I don't believe I am worth more.

I wish I'd come to this realisation earlier.

I don’t drive. I had some lessons and discovered that a) I’m awful at it and b) it makes me massively anxious like nothing else in life ever has.

Luckily I have a very equal and non-abusive relationship with my husband. And when we were buying a house my main criteria was to be in a town within walking distance of shops, bus routes, train station etc. And so that’s what we did.

I guess that if I was married to an abusive controlling man that would have been an opportunity for him to force a move somewhere rurally where being able to drive was important. So while I doubt abusive men pick out non-driving women as such, I think some abusive men could potentially use their partners non-driving as a way to exert even more control.

Honestly you should look at all the utter morons that manage to drive and if they can - anyone can! My ex-husband had two braincells and both in his arse, but he was a good driver. I always looked at him and thought that if he could drive, literally anyone can! It's not hard. But you should learn on an automatic. That makes it so much easier.

I find it hilarious that the smuggest most condescending poster has waited this long to post on this thread.

Not everyone wants to live in a city or can afford to. Some people's lifestyles - where they live related to where they work or what they do for a living means that being able to drive is necessary. Like you, I catch a train when I want to visit the city, but just lately the service has been so awful that I have had to resort to driving. There are no buses to this city from where I live.

I assume that you have no garden rubbish to take to the recycling centre or several large bags of clothes to donate to the clothing bank or DC at university who need taking and bringing back with all of their stuff?

And for the record I don't drive any more than is necessary, choosing to walk or take public transport where possible.

Well my parents don’t drive either and nobody took me back and forwards to university I got the coach in those days so it’s not something I’m planning on doing for my kids either.
And when I have stuff to take to charity shop I carry it.
And smug and condescending is all these non driver threads expressing faux concern that women are being controlled and abused if they don’t learn to drive.

But my point is that it's bloody expensive to run such a system, hence why the government prioritised the roads.

It's just not financially viable to run trains to rural areas with a population of a few hundred people, most of whom won't use the trains more than once or twice a month. Even if that entire system returned tomorrow, there would still be thousands of people who need to drive to do their jobs, and (around here at least) running a car is much cheaper and much more reliable than using the trains.

I'm thinking of professions like carers, community nurses, dog walkers - anyone who has loads of equipment to transport - builders, plasterers, gardeners, painters, plumbers - and anyone else who has to get from client to client within a limited amount of time.

Public transport works in London because it runs from early in the morning to late at night, and the buses and tubes run every few minutes. You can't do that rurally as it's impossible to finance it, so it's impossible to have the system in place at all.

People always talk about how much freedom driving gives you. I find it hilarious as a non driving woman married to a non driving man …. you won’t catch us worrying about petrol price increases, how to afford to run the car, how to get to work if it snows, how to get our kids to school if our car breaks down, where to park when meeting people in city centre.

I don't worry about any of those things and I'm a driver. Am I doing car-ownership wrong?!

I think you would be surprised at how much stuff students require these days. Most halls are self catering and halls just come with basic furniture and empty cupboards. Students have to provide all bedding and kitchen utensils as well as personal belongings. And rooms are too small to store trunks and large suitcases.

I can’t (disability) and yeah, I think controlling ex liked it, he was keen for us to move places with limited public transport options so I would be completely dependent on him for lifts. I think there’s a connection.

you won’t catch us worrying about petrol price increases, how to afford to run the car, how to get to work if it snows, how to get our kids to school if our car breaks down, where to park when meeting people in city centre

We won’t ever find you on a deserted beach, at a stately home or in a country park either.

You’ll still be moaning about petrol prices when bus fair goes up, cost of bread goes up to deliver it etc etc

nothing to be smug about it affects everything.

What a strange post.

Petrol prices affect everyone including non-drivers as they affect fares.

If you set up your life without a car there are areas of the country, actually, even London, it’s difficult to visit because you have no way to get around once you’re there. If you’re ok with that that’s fine, but it’s not freedom.

The idea that people have been sold car ownsership by car manufacturers rather than just k’now having a car and appreciating being able to always be able to get to obscure places is completely bizarre. Is your preference for non driving sold to you by public transport ads?

Also, what @Snufkinhastherightidea is talking about isn’t actually being a non-driver - it’s not having a car. It’s perfectly possible to be a driver and not have a car, but with the immeasurable bonus that if you did need to drive anywhere it’s still possible. Plenty of people know how to drive and still walk and take public transport. They don’t chop your legs off when you get your licence.

Exactly:

You won’t catch us worrying about petrol price increases

To get to work would cost me £10.70 a day on the train, I pay £50 petrol a month. Our local bus fares have gone up with petrol.

how to afford to run the car

It costs less than commuting. DH did 10 years on trains while I drove. We did the calcuations.

How to get to work if it snows

Trains and buses don't run. How do you think train staff and bus drivers get to the depot at 5am.

How to get our kids to school if our car breaks down

Taxi? Call fellow parent for life en route? Same as if the bus doesn't turn up or is late.

where to park when meeting people in city centre.

I get the train to Bristol if needs be. Also took me 30 seconds to prebook in Birmingham last month. £10 for 24 hours. I'm not banned from public transport.

Not read the full thread, but this immediately made me think of my DM. Now almost 70, she learned to drive when she and my Dad split up. Had several years of driving. Then met my step dad, and has pretty much never driven since.

They live in a market town with poor transport links and she's totally reliable on him. Since they got together she's over time fallen out with all her friends, completely stopped driving and not worked since they got married. We've (my brother and I) have tried to suggest she tries to drive again, so she can come to see the grandchildren, but according to my step dad, we need to stop asking her as she gets very stressed and upset about it, and can't cope.

This is a woman who for several years brought up two kids on her own, ran a little business, and worked part time. I'm not sure if it's abusive, as I think ultimately if she really wanted to push back against it, she would, but I certainly think it's a lot about control.

After 25ish years of challenging it, we've given up, but it does make me cross.

*reliant, not reliable!

That's interesting. My mum never learned to drive and always wanted to but my abusive stepfather refused to pay for lessons or let her use the car.

I think it was symptomatic both of his abuse and her learned helplessness.